Wintering Hives in MO

[leechmann]

Hi, I am moving my hives from Northern MN to Kansas City MO for the winter. I have the black cardboard corrugated hive wraps available. Wondering if you folks think it is to hot in that climate to use these wraps.  Would like to hear from Michael Bush on this if he is available.

Thank You 

[rober]

I'm in the St Louis area. it depends on the winter. for several years I did not even bother closing off my screened bottom boards. last winter I put a 1" piece of blue foam board under the outer cover, closed the bottom boards, & wrapped the hives with felt for a wind barrier. my inner covers are notched at the front for an upper entrance which acts as a vent to let condensation escape. I lost 4 of 6 hives ( not sure why ). people around here were saying they'd had the worst losses they'd had in years & some the worst losses ever. they are predicting another hard winter here.

[jalentour]

Rober,
If you had the option to put them in a barn, next to a house, in a cellar, or wrap, which would you choose?
Joe

[Michael Bush]

I don't wrap.  If I already owned wraps that leave an air gap between the box and the wrap, and if I only had a few hives, I might use them...

[jalentour]

There seems to be a lot of anecdotal evidence that they work.

[jayj200]

anecdotal does not mean wrong.
anecdotal is a way to dismiss an idea without getting rude. it still is rude to dismiss without any evidence.
cite the evidence.

[rober]

I wrap with felt only if it's really cold. since I have top ventilation I do not have a problem with condensation. also both of my yards have 6' tall wooden fences for windbreaks within 6' of the hives. it would be rare for it to get cold enough here to warrant putting hives in buildings.

[Bakersdozen]

I wrap with felt only if it's really cold. since I have top ventilation I do not have a problem with condensation. also both of my yards have 6' tall wooden fences for windbreaks within 6' of the hives. it would be rare for it to get cold enough here to warrant putting hives in buildings.

I am new to this forum.  I live on the Kansas side of KC.  I do much like rober does.  Windbreaks are essential in this part of the country.  It would be helpful to take into consideration your windbreak can also act as a snow fence.  Entrances blocked with snow always concern me.  Top ventilation is critical as well.  I don't know of anyone that wraps their hives.  What usually happens with our fluctuating temperatures is the colony has a false sense of warmer temps.  Some beekeepers close off their bottom boards and some don't.  Most years I close them off as wind can be such an issue.   Everyone uses entrance reducers.  The other usual considerations are low lying areas that create heavy fog, flooding issues, and lack of accessibility to name a few.  We also keep a brick or rock on the lid 365 days.  Did I mention wind being an issue?

[Michael Bush]

I'd put them in the sun where on a warm day the will get warm enough to get a cleansing flight in...

[leechmann]

Thanks everyone, I appreciate the advise.

[OldMech]

The entire purpose of the felt/tar paper is for solar gain.. it gives the bees another day, or five, or more that they can break cluster and MOVE to reserves.. if you typically have winters with mid 40 temps then you really dont need to wrap..  If you have winters where its colder longer, then wrapping may be of assistance.  I do wrap, i always have..  I wrapped my first hive with tar paper in 1977, and i have been wrapping ever since..   just because thats how I learned to do it, and I am too terrified of loosing my bees not to do what has always worked for me..  :P

[BlueBee]

I assume it's sunnier in MO than in MI in the winter.  The Great Lakes keeps us covered with clouds for weeks, if not months at a time.  Solar gain doesn't do diddly squat here so I don't wrap, but I do insulate.  The wraps try to collect heat from the sun to warm the bees, whereas insulation tries to trap the few watts of heat (maybe 10 watts) that a cluster of bees will generate in the winter.  Solar gains can be much bigger than 10 watts!  I usually have at least a hive or two in just pure wood hives over winter too and they make it sometimes, but it is quite a poo mess.

Given the conditions of the OP, if I had the wraps and had sunnier and warmer winters, I would definitely use them for the reason MB stated.  The bees just love to poo when they can.  If they have to hold it too long, things get messy and bees die. 

[jayj200]

I'm in the St Louis area. it depends on the winter. for several years I did not even bother closing off my screened bottom boards. last winter I put a 1" piece of blue foam board under the outer cover, closed the bottom boards, & wrapped the hives with felt for a wind barrier. my inner covers are notched at the front for an upper entrance which acts as a vent to let condensation escape. I lost 4 of 6 hives ( not sure why ). people around here were saying they'd had the worst losses they'd had in years & some the worst losses ever. they are predicting another hard winter here.

I know! did you see the posting on Winter. seams the Indians feel it too

[GSF]

Jay, are you talking about this one?;

http://forum.beemaster.com/index.php/topic,45662.0.html

[jayj200]

yep
just so everyone knows it is gona be a bad winter, the Indians feel it too.