Two queens in one hive... not impressed yet? They are both marked!

gilligan · April 20, 2015, 06:45:00 PM

So I haven't marked many queens in my days. But recently I decided to start doing it.

I marked 3 if I remember correctly in this one yard. One I'm pretty sure was a virgin that someone gave me that I was putting in a queenless hive (95% certain of that) I later found a supercedure cell with a larva floating in royal jelly, I was gonna let them supercede her. Another was a mated queen from a cut out I did that had two queens, one died before I released them. The other was one I recently did after finally finding what I THOUGHT was a queenless hive wasn't queenless!

So... today I had a minute and was gonna inspect that cut out hive and see how it was doing. It's a small 8 frame medium. I pull a honey frame and sit it aside, grab the next frame and there is my marked queen. But what is this ball of bees doing on this other side? I push on them and they don't want to move. They seem too many and too intent to just be messing with a SHB. I get the smoke and give it a little puff. They move but wrap around the other side of the frame and I don't see anything impressive, I think maybe it was a few SHBs. I flip the frame over to make sure the other queen hadn't jumped off or something silly and she is fine, but I see a glimpse of the marker on the other end of the frame. So then I see her. The 2nd marked queen in the hive.

I'm 100% certain I did not put her in there. So I put her in a JZB cage and hang her between frames.

don2 · April 20, 2015, 07:10:48 PM

The nuc I purchased last year had 2 queens. when I found it the next day it was too late. d2

gilligan · April 20, 2015, 07:25:32 PM

Yes, but these are bees that I marked and put in two different hives, now in the same hive.

GSF · April 20, 2015, 07:28:13 PM

Twice I've had swarms land on an active hive. I wonder if this is similar and she wandered in.

gilligan · April 20, 2015, 07:37:16 PM

Quote from: GSF on April 20, 2015, 07:28:13 PM
Twice I've had swarms land on an active hive. I wonder if this is similar and she wandered in.

That is a thought.

Would the other hive have possibly kicked her out and she just tried to go into the next hive over?

rdy-b · April 21, 2015, 03:37:56 AM

** I'm pretty sure was a virgin that someone gave me **

**The other was one I recently did after finally finding what I THOUGHT was a queenless hive wasn't queenless!**

And this my friend is the frustration of the virgin queen--was there only one --was there two-the idea of marking virgin queens is for practice at best---RDY-B

GSF · April 21, 2015, 07:50:56 AM

Gilligan, that's possible.

Michael Bush · April 21, 2015, 02:56:31 PM

When they are shaking packages queens, virgin or otherwise, often get shaken in that the package producer is unaware of.

rdy-b · April 23, 2015, 03:34:21 AM

Quote from: Michael Bush on April 21, 2015, 02:56:31 PM
When they are shaking packages queens, virgin or otherwise, often get shaken in that the package producer is unaware of.

shaking is not the norm for production --the norm these days is a smoke up of bees through a excluder
smallhive betals dont smoke up like beees do--so he mheacanics of things are changeing --How ever
if the colony or one of the colonys (THAT THE PACAGE WAS PREPARED FROM)--was prepared to swawrm
then perhaps one or moer vrgin queens would be the result of this they would esly pass thrugh a excluder
RDY-B

rdy-b · April 23, 2015, 03:44:05 AM

what is going on with the original poster-is a classic problem wih all keepers--
what a frustration-this is to new keepers --chin up RDY-B

Michael Bush · April 23, 2015, 08:59:15 AM

>shaking is not the norm for production

I don't know about that, but I know I get some packages with a queen loose in the package often enough... so she comes from somewhere.

rdy-b · April 24, 2015, 02:51:58 AM

yes she comes from somewhere---have you seen any beetles --package bees are guaranteed
SHB free from most reputable west coast suppliers--I understand your not on the west coast--
my thoughts would be a virgin could slip past the excluder--and in three days make queen sent
but not lay eggs --if she dose not mate in time game over but problems just compound-- so much
for package bees----

also most folks dont know it but there are often mother daughter queens in the colony--there has been
much debate over the fact that only one lays--but two queens are part of the tenacity of requeening
sometimes you just wish you left the hive to its own paces
there is alot to interpertat from the orginal post--there is even a point made about the queen being balled
this is such a great learning opurtunity for the keeper at hand-yes it can frustrate you but with this in your
tool kit you can see why the queen is the most important part of the hive--

RDY-B

gilligan · April 26, 2015, 04:08:01 PM

Right... These are not from packages... All of my hives are cut outs or swarms... One split.

I marked these queens myself, they didn't slip in unnoticed, except on their own power.

I checked on her a few mornings ago, they are still feeding her as she is still alive. I just need time and weather to get in my other hives to make sure everything is alright and if not I have the ability to correct it.

Hopefully she is still producing, what is the limit/downside to banking like this?

Kevin

Colobee · April 26, 2015, 11:35:16 PM

Quote from: rdy-b on April 24, 2015, 02:51:58 AM

also most folks dont know it but there are often mother daughter queens in the colony--there has been
much debate over the fact that only one lays--but two queens are part of the tenacity of requeening
sometimes you just wish you left the hive to its own paces
RDY-B

There is no doubt in my mind that both can lay at the same time - I've seen it. Two tails in cells ( opposite ends of the same side of the same frame) at the same time. I have little doubt that sometimes it may be only one.

rdy-b · April 29, 2015, 04:38:04 AM

Quote from: Colobee on April 26, 2015, 11:35:16 PM
Quote from: rdy-b on April 24, 2015, 02:51:58 AM

also most folks dont know it but there are often mother daughter queens in the colony--there has been
much debate over the fact that only one lays--but two queens are part of the tenacity of requeening
sometimes you just wish you left the hive to its own paces
RDY-B

There is no doubt in my mind that both can lay at the same time - I've seen it. Two tails in cells ( opposite ends of the same side of the same frame) at the same time. I have little doubt that sometimes it may be only one.

yes the observation is a great addition to the mother daughter queen debate-most say one has a stronger inhibator sent--myself i think its a quakmyer of conditions and age of both mother or daughter---RDY-B