starting over again, again - any thoughts or theories what happened?

[brooklynbees]

Sad news here in Brooklyn, NY
I lost three hives (all I had) this winter. I suspected by late January/early February that it wasn't going to be a good spring.
We had a few mild days and I saw that there weren't any bees taking cleansing flights.
It was much colder than usual this winter in NYC with a great deal more snow and wet weather.
But I left all the hives with two or three full deeps of capped stores and one or two shallows.
I hadn't pulled any honey off the hives (except in early Summer) because I was so busy with work, but I thought "that's okay, I'll give 'em a break this year."
I wrapped the hives as usual in roofing paper secured with bungees cords and mouse guards as per usual. Left the screened bottom on.
When I opened them last week, all the hives were dead, but I already suspected that.
There was still plenty of honey and pollen stores in all the hives, and lots of dead bees.
It looks like that in each hive the bees clustered on an interior frame that was empty of honey stores, but the deeps just above the dead cluster had plenty of capped honey.
Is it possible that the unusually long cold spells here made them unable to move up to the filled upper deep or out to the outer filled foundation?
I am just wondering what may have happened, as when the winter started the hives were in fine shape with full stores and lots of bees.
I'm picking up new bees next week, and will utilize some of the remaining capped honey in the new hives.
But I am just plain puzzled.
Is there any advice you can give me as to anything I should be cautious about when reusing the old foundation/honey?
Should I sterilize the inside of the wooden ware with bleach/water solution in case it was a disease?
Any advice is greatly appreciated.  Thanks.

[tjc1]

Sounds almost exactly like my three hives this winter. I sent samples to the USDA for free analysis (instructions here:
http://www.ars.usda.gov/Main/docs.htm?docid=7472)

They found nosema in two of the hives, tho they all looked the same inside - small cluster of bees with heads in comb, surrounded by stores (a couple inches away on the same frame). Hives were well insulated, too.

Here is the one possibly contributing factor that I noted, besides the nosema:
A bad fall (very dry - flowers but no nectar) - I wasn't paying sufficient attention until I hefted the hives in late September and found them REALLY light. Began feeding, but perhaps too late, as in October, none of the hives had any eggs or brood - maybe the queens quit laying due to the dearth, and then there were not enough late hatching bees for wintering over?

I just installed two new packages in the old equipment, but I fumigated everything with acetic acid before hand, which is supposed to kill nosema spores (as well as SHB and Wax moth). Link to thread re acetic acid: http://www.beemaster.com/forum/index.php?topic=46425.msg402272#msg402272 You can get a liter on ebay for about $24 shipped.

Good luck!

[iddee]

""the bees clustered on an interior frame""

If that is true, and they were not "clustered on several frames", they did not have enough bees to heat the area around them. Whether mite damage, nosema, or another, the cluster was too small to stay warm. Did you do a mite count in the fall, and if so, what was the result?

[OldMech]

   Get some bees that can/have wintered in your area.
   The first couple times I kept bees from the south, they died.. at least most of them.. the rest usually died the following winter..  So I rebuilt my hives, with local bees. Swarms, cut outs etc...  and I didnt lose many hives after that..  Maybe two hives out of 40, while everyone else was losing 70% or more...
   Curious... I ordered ten packages last year. Built them up well.. let 9 of the ten supersede..   (  ) and took them into winter along side 30 hives of my own making with home bred queens.
   8 of the ten died of starvation, inches from food.   TWO of my own local hives perished.. Because i tried to winter them with no upper ventilation. they got wet, and when I checked on them they were Ice cubes...   "ALL" of the rest of my hives survived and came into spring booming.
   Other folks can (and will) say what they will. I have proven it too many times. I KNOW FOR A FACT there is a difference.
     I absolutely advocate buying packages!!!
     I also advocate buying a local queen to put in those packages once they get started building up.

   YOU can do everything right, and still lose your bees if THEY are not capable of breaking cluster and getting to reserves when it gets COLD.



   http://www.outyard.net/wintering.html

The Number 1 most important thing to do is to make sure you have bees that CAN survive the winter!
   Buy the southern package by ALL means!  But then replace the queen with a local or northern queen when they are growing well.

   #2 Make sure they have enough stores!
   The amount of reserves they need is entirely dependent on your location. In Southern Texas they may not need anything stored away because they never HAVE a true winter..   In Canada they may need 120 to 150 lbs.. Where I live, my bees need an average of 100 lbs of honey.
   Average is NOT the safe number for you to go by.
  Then how do you know?
  The sad truth is, you don't. So you prepare for the worst. If the worst does not happen your covered, if the worst DOES happen, your STILL covered!

   #3 Make sure your bees are Mite and disease free.

   #4 Make sure they have a home that will not kill them. Condensation, Dripping onto the cluster will kill your bees. Insulate the top of the inner cover to prevent this.

If you have those 4 things covered, your bees have an EXCELLENT chance of surviving the winter.

[D Coates]

What were the mite count/treatments and how were their stores going into winter?

[brooklynbees]

Thanks to all for the thoughts and suggestions.

Just a note, when I said clustered on interior frame, the girls were on both sides of 3 interior frames (back to back) head into the comb and the rest piled on each other. There was probably an inch of dead bees on each bottom board when I opened up the hives. The box above the cluster in both cases was full of capped honey. The hives were full of bees in October and a queen when I last checked them right before the winterizing them, but with only a few brood.  So, they had sufficient (to me) bees and stores for a regular winter. As I said though, this winter in NYC was not a "regular" one.

I will take the advice of sending some of the dead ones to the ag dept for testing; may be they will have some clues and suggestions as to anything that may have weakened them. The mite counts during the summer were very low when I did the drop test on the bottom board. Not enough I thought to have to treat as I also use a drone comb frame to pull them away.

I take it that by acetic acid you mean vinegar and water? If so, I'll try that. Thought a bleach and water might also work if I let the boxes air out well before setting them up. Also, I'm dumping all the old empty comb - melt what I can and throw away the rest.

My final comment is that last year I re-queened the hives with new queens that I had bought from a supplier. I don't believe they were local queens. I will take the advice and try that this year.

[D Coates]

I do drone removal myself too.  It's helpful but only slows the growth of the mite numbers.  There needs to be another "punch" for a one-two heading into winter.  If you've got a smallish cluster that froze, and little or no waste on the frames (indicating nosema) and adequate food stores the first thing I learned was seriously consider adding another mite treatment.  OA drip, OA vaporization, Apivar, to name a few.  Personally I've had the best luck with Apivar added after my last harvest (Labor Day).

[tjc1]

No, you need industrial strength acetic acid - 80% strength (what you usually see is 'glacial acetic acid', which is 100% strength, but can easily be diluted to 80%). Check those links for directions - it takes a week with the boxes stacked and sealed up, then a few days of airing out. Don't throw away the comb, it's so valuable to your new bees! The fuming kills anything bad on them.

[brooklynbees]

Thank you for the info. I'll make sure to pick some up. I have time. I was notified the packages aren't coming in for another week. And I'm happy about being able to safe the comb. I was afraid using it would spread something but now I can make sure its clean.
And am going to add an Apivar treatment like Coates suggested.
After this winter, my daughter is threatening to call the UN War Crimes Tribunal for genocide against bees...

[Packrat3wires]

I lost 2/3's of my hives this winter as well here in Kentucky.    The hives survived the first heavy snow fall and sub zero temperatures but didn't have the numbers to survive the 2nd  late winter / early spring heavy snow and sub zero temperatures.   They were still clustered with food stores nearly 3 inches away but couldn't make it.     There really is "Strength in Numbers".