Two swarms one tree

craneman54 · May 12, 2015, 09:24:09 PM

The day before yesterday 5/10 I remove a trap that I caught a swarm in. I also put another trap in it's place. Just to kill time I took a ride over there to this afternoon low and behold I have another swarm in the replacement trap. I am thinking these girls got here some time today.

Here are a few pics,then a couple of questions. Don't know why I can't get pics to show.

Some bees clumped up just below the entrance. I thought they were surrounding the queen but was not under them. Any idea why they were clumped outside the trap.
http://s4.photobucket.com/user/craneman54/media/005_zpsg5wuk6jf.jpg.html?sort=3&o=3

Some of the bees fanning outside the trap.
http://s4.photobucket.com/user/craneman54/media/006_zpscgfbghzj.jpg.html?sort=3&o=1

Checking out the outside of the trap.
http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y109/craneman54/003_zpsrpy4mpmi.jpg

There were bees flying all over the place some had pollen so I assume there must be a queen.

BeeMaster2 · May 13, 2015, 05:22:28 AM

Quote from: craneman54 on May 12, 2015, 09:24:09 PM
The day before yesterday 5/10 I remove a trap that I caught a swarm in. I also put another trap in it's place. Just to kill time I took a ride over there to this afternoon low and behold I have another swarm in the replacement trap. I am thinking these girls got here some time today.

Here are a few pics,then a couple of questions. Don't know why I can't get pics to show.

Some bees clumped up just below the entrance. I thought they were surrounding the queen but was not under them. Any idea why they were clumped outside the trap.
http://s4.photobucket.com/user/craneman54/media/005_zpsg5wuk6jf.jpg.html?sort=3&o=3

Some of the bees fanning outside the trap.
http://s4.photobucket.com/user/craneman54/media/006_zpscgfbghzj.jpg.html?sort=3&o=1

Checking out the outside of the trap.
http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y109/craneman54/003_zpsrpy4mpmi.jpg

There were bees flying all over the place some had pollen so I assume there must be a queen.

&
There is a good chance that these bees are just bees that were out in the field when you removed the swarm box. Have you looked inside to see how many bees are in there?
Look closely at the bees fanning. This is scenting. The bees fanning have opened (bent the last segment down) up the nasanof gland. They are telling their hive mates that this is where the hive is. If enough of them are fanning, you can sometimes smell the scent of lemongrass oil. That is why we place a couple of drops of lemongrass oil in our swarm traps.
Jim

craneman54 · May 13, 2015, 09:10:59 AM

No I haven't looked inside. I have been advised to stay my dumb butt out the hives so much.

Just joking Bud.

No I hadn't thought of that. I will check tonight when the sun goes down well.

These bees did seem a little more defensive though. If I got within 3 feet of them the guards would buss me and a couple of them even head butted me.The original hive did not act like that. If there are very few inside and no queen,should I take them to the original hive and see if they will go back to them? Are leave them and see if they try and make a queen and start there own hive?

Dallasbeek · May 13, 2015, 11:13:22 AM

Make a queen from what? If you have a frame of eggs and young larvae (less than 36 hours since hatching), you might try giving that to them. Then they could make a queen.

chux · May 13, 2015, 11:14:48 AM

Sounds like you've been having a good time with those traps. If the trap only has a handful of bees inside, and no queen, they are unable to raise a queen. There is no queen to lay eggs. So, just take the box over to the hive you just trapped, and shake them out on the ground in front. You could spray them with a little sugar water to help them get a warm reception. If you give them a ramp, they may well march right in the front door and rejoin their colony. The sugar water will help with the welcome. Or, they may jump up and fly off. Either way is OK if it's just a handful of bees.

The fact that these bees seem more aggressive could be a few things. They could just be "hot" bees. This year I have seen several swarms that were much more aggressive than usual. Even swarms that have only been out for an hour or two. Or...they could already feel established in the box, and be trying to protect home. Or...they could be those queenless leftovers, and be mad about not having a mama. Be careful when you look in there. If it is a softball size ball of bees, you could have a secondary swarm with a virgin queen. They can be very hard to spot.

craneman54 · May 13, 2015, 11:20:50 AM

Quote from: Dallasbeek on May 13, 2015, 11:13:22 AM
Make a queen from what? If you have a frame of eggs and young larvae (less than 36 hours since hatching), you might try giving that to them. Then they could make a queen.

Sorry I had just gotten out of bed this morning when I typed that. Takes me at least a half hour before my brain starts functioning.

craneman54 · May 13, 2015, 11:37:03 AM

I will check them out tonight after the sun goes down. I will bring my bee jacket with me.
Yes I do enjoy catching the swarms. As of now I have yet to be stung but I know it is coming. No problem with getting stung I can take it,at least that is what I tell myself.

Dallasbeek · May 13, 2015, 12:29:22 PM

Some people believe a beekeeper NEEDS to be stung some to avoid building up a hypersensitivity to the venom (which could be very dangerous). We and our families are around things like bee suits and equipment that our bodies react to and develop defenses against. There's quite a bit on this forum about this, I think. Try searching for it and get the full discussion. Just in shorthand, the above info might be helpful. Early in a season, I react pretty dramatically to stings. Later, after being stung a few times (and hiding out a few days intil the swelling goes down), my reactions are less severe, sometimes negligible. At our beekeeper meeting last night, a physician came and wrote prescriptions for epi pens for everyone who wanted one.

BeeMaster2 · May 13, 2015, 12:37:15 PM

Craneman,
Why do you say you will check them after dark. I have only gone into my hives after dark when I absolutely had to and that was to just add a super or add a missing frame. Your bees will be most defensive at night. Do it during the day, preferably with some blue sky visible. That is when most of your field bees are out of the hive and they are happy when they have flowers to visit. They also keep your house bees happy bringing in the food for them to process.
Jim

craneman54 · May 13, 2015, 02:02:13 PM

Quote from: sawdstmakr on May 13, 2015, 12:37:15 PM
Craneman,
Why do you say you will check them after dark. I have only gone into my hives after dark when I absolutely had to and that was to just add a super or add a missing frame. Your bees will be most defensive at night. Do it during the day, preferably with some blue sky visible. That is when most of your field bees are out of the hive and they are happy when they have flowers to visit. They also keep your house bees happy bringing in the food for them to process.
Jim

I thought they were less aggressive after dark. And also it is overcast today with a steady breeze. But I will listen to those who know and go take a look after I eat my lunch. They are still bearded on the front of the box. If I pull the box off now I might have the same problem when they fly away while moving the box.

Quote from: Dallasbeek on May 13, 2015, 12:29:22 PM
Some people believe a beekeeper NEEDS to be stung some to avoid building up a hypersensitivity to the venom (which could be very dangerous). We and our families are around things like bee suits and equipment that our bodies react to and develop defenses against. There's quite a bit on this forum about this, I think. Try searching for it and get the full discussion. Just in shorthand, the above info might be helpful. Early in a season, I react pretty dramatically to stings. Later, after being stung a few times (and hiding out a few days intil the swelling goes down), my reactions are less severe, sometimes negligible. At our beekeeper meeting last night, a physician came and wrote prescriptions for epi pens for everyone who wanted one.

I am not worried about being stung. I have lived with pain all my adult life and bee stings is nothing compared to some pain I have endured. I was just making a statement as to not being stung when putting my swarms on the stands. As I have only worn my short sleeve bleep while working the bees.

craneman54 · May 13, 2015, 07:59:19 PM

OK I checked the swarm box. 4 or 5 bees inside nothing happening. Might have 100 on and around the outside. Will just take it down for a few days or put it up somewhere else.
I smoked the bees hoping to get them inside the box,that's were the 4 or 5 inside came from,the rest took to the air.

Dallasbeek · May 13, 2015, 08:15:54 PM

Yeah, they were out shopping when you moved the others, I'll bet. Put them near the others, spray them with sugar water and they'll be accepted into the hive...even strangers bearing food are welcome.

craneman54 · May 13, 2015, 09:09:41 PM

Quote from: Dallasbeek on May 13, 2015, 08:15:54 PM
Yeah, they were out shopping when you moved the others, I'll bet. Put them near the others, spray them with sugar water and they'll be accepted into the hive...even strangers bearing food are welcome.

Dang fool bees. Don't they know they have a curfew?

chux · May 14, 2015, 03:37:19 PM

When did you move the original swarm trap full of bees? Was it during the day, or after dark? I assumed it was after dark. If you moved them after dark, there were no foragers out.

BeeMaster2 · May 14, 2015, 09:55:47 PM

Chux,
I used to think the same thing. If you seal off a hive, during a good flow, after dark and check on it in the morning, depending on how far away the food is, you will have bees coming into the hive for quite a while. It is not uncommon for bees to stay out after night and return in the morning.
I first discovered this on my first cut out.
I arrived before sunrise and blocked all but one entrance and vacuumed up every bee coming out of the hive. For the next hour and a half bees poured on to the hive from the field.
Jim

craneman54 · May 14, 2015, 10:36:18 PM

Quote from: chux on May 14, 2015, 03:37:19 PM
When did you move the original swarm trap full of bees? Was it during the day, or after dark? I assumed it was after dark. If you moved them after dark, there were no foragers out.

I moved them just before dark. I went back to the tree I had the trap and there were 5 bees on the trunk and 2 or 3 more buzzing around.