wax yields of cut and drain

[weedyau]

Hi,
I'm costing extraction methods and would like to know ball-park wax yields of cut and drain extraction of 9 frame deeps.
I've read that honey harvests are higher with this method (not taking into account wax production). What are your experiences?
Thanks

[Smertrios]

I'm not 100% about my numbers (not yet a bee kepper) but is essence it takes something like 8 pounds of honey to make a pound of wax and a pound of wax stores 22 pounds of honey. Using an extractor will always get you more honey since the bees need to create less wax but using deep frames might cause you some problems with "blowouts" unless using strong plastic foundation. I'm not sure but I dont think many extractors (in particular the smaller hobby ones) will even fit a deep frame. Doesn't take much math to realize that for every pound of wax you do not remove you get another 8 pounds of honey assuming the comb has already been built! I am curious if there is a way to put the wax in the hives for the bees to reuse.

[Michael Bush]

I assume you mean crush and strain?  If you just uncap them they don't drain...  I did crush and strain for 26 years and have extracted for the last 15 years.  Both work fine, but I don't see the point in buying an extractor unless you have a lot of hives or some money burning a hole in your pocket...

http://www.bushfarms.com/beesharvest.htm

[chux]

I've not extracted honey from deeps. I use medium supers. I get around 35 pounds of honey out of nine medium frames. I use foundationless frames, and they do fine in an extractor as long as I am patient. A deep should yield somewhere around 60-70 pounds of honey. If you live in a region with a long season and multiple flows, it would pay to use an extractor. I extracted supers of spring honey in early June, then put the combs back on the hives. They will refill and cap with Cotton honey in July and early August. I will remove and extract again. Then I will put the supers back on the hive and let them fill up on the fall flow of golden-rod and aster, for the winter stores. If the fall flow is weak, I will save out some honey to feed back. If it is strong, I can sell that honey. If I have extra supers of comb at the end of the season, I can store them away until spring. When the flow starts, I can sit the comb on top of the hive, and they begin storing right away. This has the potential to greatly increase honey production. A smaller colony can use all the help they can get. Give them comb ready to go, and they get bigger a lot quicker.

Crush and strain would prevent me from getting the second harvest. The bees would burn through the cotton nectar, rebuilding comb. By giving them comb, I can get a second harvest and also let them build out more comb in a new super, which I can give to a needy hive. 

How much wax could you get off of that box, cutting it all out and melting it down? Not sure. It probably won't be as much as you think. I doubt it would be enough to offset the potential loss of honey.   

Smaller extractors can be pretty inexpensive now. Crush and strain for a couple of years, save your money, and buy one. You may decide you like crush and strain well enough. If not, you could find a friend, or make a new friend, who is also getting into bees, and go in together and share an extractor. Or see if your local club has an extractor. We just bought one for the club.   

[Smertrios]

Seems like the best way to remove the least amount of wax is to have a heat gun or 2. I bet empty cells get totally destroyed!

EDIT: I watched his second video and there are issues with using heat

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Eym8rxYeLTc

[weedyau]

Thankyou Gents. The 1:8 wax cost in honey and 1:22 wax honey yield ratios are exactly what I needed.

[Smertrios]

FYI I got "my numbers" I am using from another post where Michael Bush was posting. The page he linked to has that information and more details I just read it now.

[GSF]

Hi all, been just too busy this year!

I've used the heat gun before, works quick. It did alter the taste of my honey. It went from tasting really, really, great to just tasting good. Seriously, I could taste the difference. It seemed to my taste buds that there was a change in the flavor.

[chux]

I guess I just don't understand what happens using a heat gun. It seems to me that the wax capping doesn't just disappear. It melts. Where does the melted wax go? Into the honey, and into the extractor? I guess it will cool down and solidify at some point? I've heard several people say it alters the flavor of the honey. 

[BeeMaster2]

The caps are so thin that when it melts, it opens up the cells. It may not work too well on wet cappings (caps look dark) as it will on dry cappings (caps look white). The honey on wet cappings may cool the wax and make it harder to melt it.

Jim

[Michael Bush]

Anytime I've tried melting the cappings off, they just congealed again when the heat was removed and while the cappings were thinner, they still blocked the honey...

[ed/La.]

the heat gun is to make the honey flow. warm honey flows cold just stays in cells. still need to uncap the frame. Money is in the honey not the wax. crush and strain is a waste of comb.You are not getting much wax maybe a candle.

[Smertrios]

Is the flavor of crush and strain honey different from extracted honey? I have read that some people think its less nutritious after the honey has been stretched into tiny strands, exposed to oxygen then smeared against the sides of an extractor only to slowly drip down. Would be alot less exposure to oxygen with crush and strain plus there is very little pressure applied to the honey. Tubing leading from the outlet of a crush and strain extractor to the catch barrel could seriously minimize the expose of honey to oxygen.

[Michael Bush]

>Is the flavor of crush and strain honey different from extracted honey?

Yes.  So is comb honey.

> I have read that some people think its less nutritious...

I doubt that, it just loses some of the floral hints and the lighter flavors...