Deep Nuc - Medium body frame transition

[Dabbler]

I am preparing to start my first hives next spring (2016). I plan on running 10 frame mediums and starting from Nucs. I have only found deep Nucs available. Therefore I have a 3? shim to accommodate the deep to medium height difference and plan on using blocks under the medium frames to minimize burr comb.

My question is how/when do I replace the deep frames with mediums? Do I need to wait until the following spring (2017), after the cluster would have presumably moved up over the winter? Is there a good time/method to exchange the frames earlier?

Thanks for your thoughts & suggestions.

[Michael Bush]

There are typically a lot of empty combs after winter that can be easily removed.  Any comb during a flow that doesn't have brood in it can be removed.  Putting frames of brood over an excluder (not in the winter) will insure that the queen won't lay in them and so there won't be brood in them...

The answer is anytime they are empty or there is no brood in them and there is a flow so they can replace the resources.

[mikecva]

I also run all mediums, another thought: if you are getting 5 frame deep nucs, you could purchase one deep box and 5 deep frames. You would then end up with 1 deep brood box with 1 or 2 mediums as your brood area.  -Mike

[Dabbler]

Thank you both for your suggestions.

Mikecva - I build my own equipment and considered making a deep but didn't want to store it or cut down to medium size later. Lazy I guess!

Michael - Being so new that I won't have bees until next spring, I will probably play it safe and wait until after winter to pull the deep frames. I like the excluder idea though and will keep it in mind should I start feeling "bold" in my first year.

[Sundog]

If you are building your nucs why not build mediums?  You could also build a medium hive, limit your entrance opening to one side and use a follower board.  Start with 5 or 6 frames and add frames as needed until full, then stack on medium supers.

Have fun!

[Dabbler]

Sundog - I will be starting by buying nucs and have only found sources for nucs with deep frames. I want to standardize on mediums. This is what prompted the frame size transition question.

[HillBilly2]

Maybe stack a couple of mediums, Look at the nucs, there will usually be a frame of honey, probably only 3 or 4 frames of brood. Drop them on one side of the mediums with medium frames filling the rest of the hive. As they expand into the medium frames in the center the end frame will usually empty as the brood hatches. As it does remove it and move everything over. Repeat as you can. Problems are they will build burr comb on bottom. Also you have to have an empty hive body when you go in to inspect to sit the top medium on until you get the deeps worked out. 

Or after they get going in the mediums, make sure the queen is in the mediums, set a deep box on top for the deep frames with an excluder. As they empty out remove them.

[BeeGinningBeek]

Idea: start with a deep nuc, put em in a deep box with medium frames, AKA 5 deep, 5 med. And, add medium boxes on top, once you get one drawn, move the deep up, and keep that deep on top. After you get into year 2, you probably will have 2-3 mediums, so remove the deep frames. Or, buy a package, and a few medium brood combs from a friendly neighborhood beek :)

[Jim134]

Seeing you have some time just get a beekeeper to raise a medium nuc for you ...
I do know of several queen breeders in New England that does do this on a regular basis if they know in advance.
And yes I do work part time for a beekeeper in Vermont who would do this in a heartbeat for and advanced order.


                 BEE HAPPY Jim 134   

[Dabbler]

... . Drop them on one side of the mediums with medium frames filling the rest of the hive. As they expand into the medium frames in the center the end frame will usually empty as the brood hatches. As it does remove it and move everything over. Repeat as you can. Problems are they will build burr comb on bottom. Also you have to have an empty hive body when you go in to inspect to sit the top medium on until you get the deeps worked out.   

Hillbilly -  Your positioning idea is an interesting tweak on Michael Bush's 'remove anytime they're empty' comment. This could potentially speed up the deep frame removal. 
I have a 3" shim I will use on a medium box to accommodate the deep frames. Will have to deal with the burr comb I guess, or build some type of "block" to fit under the medium frames. 

[OldMech]

If you look around a bit you can find a keep that will have medium nucs.
   If you decide you want the bees in the deeps, then you already have answered your own questions..
   I run ten frame mediums, and OFTEN inherit hives with deeps.  I do just as you mention, and put medium boxes on the deep or deeps. I leave them on, and in the spring I can pull the bottom box/deep out completely and give them another medium to draw.
   Its not an emergency, it doesnt have to happen overnight, and the bees seem to really not be concerned that the box sizes do not match.

[Sundog]

Worst case, you could always treat the nuc like a cutout and remount the comb into medium frames.  JP has lots of very entertaining and educational videos of him doing various cutouts.  Being remounted into frames doesn't seem to slow the bees down very much.  The bees will reattach the comb and throw the rubber bands out within a few days.

BTW, you should add your location to your profile so people know better how to advise you.

[little john]

I have a 3? shim to accommodate the deep to medium height difference and plan on using blocks under the medium frames to minimize burr comb.

That is quite a clever idea for someone who is new to beekeeping !  Seeing as you are able to build your own equipment, another possibility (one I'm currently mulling over myself) is to make short frames - without top bar lugs - to be cable-tied underneath the mediums.  Then the bees can build natural comb there to their heart's content. And then, whenever convenient, those short frames can be removed and tied together underneath a plain top bar, so that nothing is wasted.

Over here in England we have frames which are 6", 9" and 12" deep - so a handful of 3 inch 'short frames' would allow migration between the various sizes, albeit with a small amount of work involved. To be clear - I'm not suggesting that this ought to be part of a regular operation - just something useful to employ on the odd occasion, should a disparity of frame size present itself.

LJ

[Dabbler]

That is quite a clever idea for someone who is new to beekeeping ! 

LJ - Thanks. I would love to take credit for the shim idea. However . . . . the only "credit" I can take is doing some research on old Beemaster posts. If I remember correctly, the shim idea came from Michael Bush.