Someone else's bees

goatmanbees · November 15, 2015, 01:49:10 AM

A local winery has contacted me about setting up and maintaining an apiary for them.

1. Does anyone have experience setting up someone else's apiary? Problems, pit falls, etc.?

2. What's the "going rate" for maintaining someone else's bees?

Thank you

GSF · November 15, 2015, 06:48:51 AM

How many hives? My bees are a lot of work. If I was to charge someone else to look after their hives it probably wouldn't be worth it to them. On the other hand I often help new beekeepers at no charge.

KeyLargoBees · November 15, 2015, 07:50:02 AM

Might also want to factor in if this is a "showcase apiary" or not. The winery might want bees as part of the ambiance and not for any true function for the winery...if that's the case they will be willing to pay as they would any other "decorator" or maintenance personnel.

sc-bee · November 15, 2015, 09:00:29 AM

Do they even understand keeping bees. The pitfall is when they don't make it they will look at YOU! Bee loses can be expensive as we all know.

Foxhound · November 15, 2015, 10:30:37 PM

I would advise you to own all the equipment and bees. If they offer to own the equipment and pay you to manage the bees, it gets complicated. Sometimes you need a box yesterday and the owners can be slow to buy another one.

Treat them like they are yours and supplement them with frames from your other hives. You want them to do well for your sake and theirs.

Eric Bosworth · November 16, 2015, 12:40:39 PM

I'm with Foxhound. If they want bees for pollination offer to just keep some of your hives at the vineyard. You manage the hives like you always do you just keep them at the vineyard. I don't have enough bees to keep them at multiple locations yet but I hope to move some of my bees to my parents next spring. When my parents kept bees they had them in at least 5 locations. The going rate to keep your bees someplace is a jar or 2 of honey. Seems like a win win to me.

BeeMaster2 · November 16, 2015, 01:24:36 PM

I with Foxhound.
I would not be giving away honey when you should be being paid pollination fees. They can bee as high as $200 a hive for Almond pollination. $100. might bee about right for this job.
Jim

hjon71 · November 16, 2015, 01:56:10 PM

Grapes don't benefit much from honeybees typically. You might ask WHY they want them there. If it's for pollination, you might tell them it probably won't benefit them much.

If they persisted in wanting them there I'd be inclined to agree with everyone else and offer to place my own hives on the property first. If they insist on having their own, I'd help get them up and running and possibly help out for a fee.

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GSF · November 17, 2015, 06:12:18 AM

This year the number of my hives exploded - so did the harvest of my grapes and scuppernongs. (aka scuppernines) It may have just been a good year anyway. The bronze and dark scuppernongs must have one another to pollinate, wind maybe? I plan to watch to see if there's any bee activity on them. The flowers are so incredibly small they look like fruit coming on.

OldMech · November 17, 2015, 10:45:33 AM

I have grapes, and the largest drawback is spraying those grapes.. In a commercial vineyard they will want the best harvest, so they WILL be spraying, both for insects and fungicides. If they want bees, they will need to understand that the bees will need to be locked in when they spray. I see bees among the grapes when they are blooming, so I am sure there is "some" benefit, the drawback is keeping them healthy. A second drawback may be the size of the vineyard.. Like any crop, once the bloom is over, it becomes a desert to the bees. The entirety of a vineyard is usually well maintained and mowed, so there will be no blooming plants within the vineyard.. so inspecting the surrounding area will be important. Are there streams for water for the bees? Blooming trees and other plants they can forage from?

Hops Brewster · November 17, 2015, 11:44:55 AM

Wind and insects are only minority pollinators of grapes. Most modern varieties are self-pollinating. What winery would want valuable acreage devoted to male vines that don't produce useable fruit? Honey bees would be only marginally helpful to them.

On the other hand, if this winery produces 'country' wines, that is, wines made from fruits other than grape such as berries, cherries and pears, hives could be a great boon to the winery. Or, perhaps they want to try their hand at making mead?

GSF · November 17, 2015, 02:14:48 PM

Hops, I'm going to say this out of school for me, but I'm sure I don't have male and female scuppernongs/grapes. All vines produce. Some are modern varieties and others are layered cuttings from the 50's & 70's. Maybe each vine is both male and female?

sc-bee · November 17, 2015, 09:30:06 PM

Go to Isons http://store.isons.com/muscadine-vines you will see some are self pollinators and some are not. A lot of the new hybrids(?) are and some of the old fashion not. A black pollinator will pollinate a bronze. So therefore both will fruit. Most of the rural south will have black muscadines that will serve as pollinators.

goatmanbees · November 17, 2015, 09:54:20 PM

I met with them today. It turns out that they only want a few hives because it's good for the world. They were a little surprised at the price tag but still want them.

Thanks for everyone's input!!!!

Hops Brewster · November 17, 2015, 09:55:23 PM

Quote from: GSF on November 17, 2015, 02:14:48 PM
Hops, I'm going to say this out of school for me, but I'm sure I don't have male and female scuppernongs/grapes. All vines produce. Some are modern varieties and others are layered cuttings from the 50's & 70's. Maybe each vine is both male and female?

That's just what I was saying, they're self-pollinating. Hermaphrodites. Insects will have a minor pollination impact, and maybe that's all that was needed for you to see an increase in production. But how much increase percentage-wise? Enough to make it worthwhile for a winery to invest in hives? I've seen bees on grapes, but not very many.

So, if bees are only marginally beneficial to grapes, is the opposite also true, are grapes only marginally beneficial to bees?

sc-bee · November 17, 2015, 11:12:51 PM

I agree the use of bees is marginal...but they are not all self pollinating. Maybe what most commercial folks plant but not all. That is why in a lot of vineyards you will see a row of bronze in in that row some black (cowarts).

jayj200 · November 18, 2015, 12:01:06 PM

i like being honest but they want to pay let them. of course you could ask them to join your bee club

hjon71 · November 18, 2015, 08:52:14 PM

Grapes do flower, and honeybees do work them. They(bees) must be getting something or they wouldn't be there.

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sc-bee · November 18, 2015, 09:10:11 PM

Quote from: hjon71 on November 18, 2015, 08:52:14 PM
Grapes do flower, and honeybees do work them. They(bees) must be getting something or they wouldn't be there.

Maybe a little pollen. They really don't work grapes that much.. they will suck the juice after another insect punctures the skin but they will not puncture the skin.
Take squash and cukes...get some pollen but willl starve to death on them.