Swarm Trap Placement

[KeyLargoBees]

Being an Island Chain...the Florida Keys are a somewhat unique "geography". Options for Swarm trap placement are limited. I obtained permission from the local Electric co-op  to place traps along the power line right of way up on the northern end of the islands where no aerial spraying occurs. I am thinking more feral colonies will exist up there since they wont be hammered yearly by sprays during the summer.

The road and then the power line right of way adjacent (separated by a wooded strip from the road) are the only north south fly ways upup in that area and I have seen lots of bees transiting up and down both while hiking and biking....the question is ...if we are looking at an island a little over a mile wide that is virtually all hardwood hammock growth how close together do you all think traps should be placed? We are looking at about an 8 mile section of road/power lines.

Worst case scenario I will put them out every mile or so and keep them baited starting mid January :-)

Wish me luck!!

[herbhome]

Good luck,

Planning on trying my hand at swarm trapping next year. Spending this winter studying and building my traps.

[Acebird]

What happens to the feral colonies when a hurricane comes through?  Do they have to reestablish?

[D Coates]

My 2 cents is put them up every mile and see how it goes.  I've got no experience at doing exactly what you're planning but success/failure will have you modifying you're first tries.

[little john]

If you're really short of bees, then - yes - put up a few boxes a mile apart. Sounds like a good plan.

But - I really wouldn't spend too much time or effort focussing on swarm-catching, or (in the case of any total beginners reading this) relying on it as a source of bees.

In my view, concentrating on the bees you already have, or in the case of a first-timer - actually shelling out some cash for a nuc - is a far more certain way of proceeding, for it can be demoralising to waste months of the season without catching anything. I have always considered that buying one's first nuc is an investment which very soon repays itself.

Many find it surprising just how quickly their colonies can multiply, and the problem then becomes one of not enough boxes to keep them all in. It's always been my problem, and I'm thinking of having 'Never Enough Boxes' chiselled onto my tombstone.

Having said this - good luck with your swarm-catching - hope you're successful (and that you've got enough boxes to put them all in ...).

LJ

[Acebird]

In my view, concentrating on the bees you already have, or in the case of a first-timer - actually shelling out some cash for a nuc - is a far more certain way of proceeding,
LJ

I agree with this statement and I will add unless you spend a lot of time learning what it takes to keep bees you may sustain a total loss of bees the first year.  Think of it as a course of experience that you paid for.  Determination will make you successful.

[KeyLargoBees]

I have 2 successful colonies that are over "wintering" from last year so I am not relying on this for bees but rather a source of potential growth. I am trying to expand a bit and I figured the trapping experiment would be a fun and informative adventure.

If I catch something great if not no worries it was a little time and effort. While researching I made some good connections at the electric co-op and the local stat park office and have some new customers placing orders and waiting for spring honey ;-)

Actually found two feral colonies over the weekend that are on state park land....I couldn't wrangle permission to remove them but am going to place swarm traps nearby and see what that gets us.

Ace I have only seen one external colony down here but I am sure there are others. Storms don't really hit us very often. Last one we had that with more than 20-30 mph winds was 4 years ago....so I expect the bees lose some colonies when that occurs but with colonies inside trees or structures they survive without problems. Its the yearly mosquito spraying that decimates colonies more than anything else I am sure (based on deaths outside my hives even with me taking precautions and covering/isolating during sprays).

[WPG]

Hey KeyLargo

Great  contacts and access there. Way to go.

Do you have to worry much about africanized feral bees?

If not, load'em up.

Nothing wrong with expanding with swarms.

If you want alot, put some stealth bucket feeders out nearby the ferals.

I've caught five swarms from the same colony in about a weeks time and watched two other swarms fly away, just by putting out syrup early. Cost me about 25 lbs of sugar.

Despite others success with 5-frame nucs at ground level,  the best trap has the volume equal to a 10-frame deep and placed 12 to 15 feet in the air. And in the shade.

Small swarms will go in a bigger box than they need, but a large swarm will not go in a small box.

If you saturate the area around the ferals that you know about, by varying the height, the direction and the distance, you'll find out what works best for you.

In your 8 mile stretch, without knowing where the colonies are, I'd put them as close as a half mile apart and stagger them on the mile width.

If you use standard boxes (one 10-frame deep or two 8-frame mediums) with just plywood screwed on top and bottom or rachet strapped together, you won't have alot of extra equipment  that you won't use very often.

A small entrance down low, covered with half inch hardware cloth on the inside, so it can be easily plugged when retrieving and no birds will get in.

No honey or wax in the trap that might attract pests. Just lemongrass oil.
Use frames set up as foundationless. Even if they crosscomb it, it will be easier than cutting it loose from the the top.

A thousand other little pointers, but that should get you started.

If I can be of any further help, anytime.

How big do you hope to get eventually?

Goodluck and have fun.

[KeyLargoBees]

Thanks for the pointers WPG and all.....I have 8 Dcoates Nucs ready to set up as traps but am making some deeps this weekend from some scrap lumber (thank you islamorada elevator for setting out perfectly good 1X10's to "recycle"...free wood is the best ) and will intersperse those with the smaller nucs. I was looking to expand to somewhere between 10 and 15 colonies this year but we will see how it goes. I snagged a small virgin/queenless swarm today  on my lunch break after I got  call this morning which puts me at 4 hives if they stay and settle in......Swarm was the size of a cantelope but didn't see a queen and will check in a day or so once they get settled in.

Not too concerned about AHB on swarm catches and to my knowledge there has never been a report of africanized colonies in the Florida Keys but If I catch a swarm and it seems overly pissy I will requeen immediately so as not to take chances since all my bee yards are in close proximity to residential areas.....better to take steps before they grow into a mean colony. This is just opinion of others but in speaking to people who do removals/exterminations professionally up on the mainland where there have been reports of AHB the general consensus is that there are few if any "pure" africanized hives and the genetics have been diluted enough over time that the  ferals are only slightly more aggressive than russians when you run cross a bad colony so proving they are African at all is a matter of sending off bees for testing and there really isn't any way to tell by demeanor. With that said it always pays to be careful and I never work strange bees without a full suit even on the best of days...I dont have the kind of stones JP has....cant imagine a day where I took 20-30 stings and chalking it up as "normal" LOL

[joebrown]

For what it is worth, I have caught swarms about every way you can think of. The first two I caught was in hives sitting in my driveway because I was too lazy to put them up. They were empty so I knew it was not robbing. When I cracked the hives I was rather happy with the sight. One of them was an old wax moth infested hive on the ground and they still moved in it. This got me to thinking and researching. For the last 5 years, I have caught more bees than I have bought.

- I generally hang my hives in trees using a bracket that kind of looks like a mailbox post you would get at the hardware store. Three pieces of wood. Two pieces at 90 degrees with a 45 degree brace underneath. This year I used metal shelving brackets that I bought at the store. It was easier and cheaper than making my own.

- I generally hang mine around 8 to 10 foot high. Facing South. I like for the hives to have some limbs around them, but the front of the hive should be clear to make for easy access. Now with that being said, I have caught many with hives on the ground and many with hives facing N, S, E and W. I recently moved. During the move I hauled all my hives to my parents house. I had about 30 or 40 empty hives and a bunch of supers under some trees on the ground. I caught a swarm in the middle of all that bee equipment. The hive body was completely empty with no frames. The super had frames. They moved into the super and are doing great.

- Distance apart? Before I moved, I had a field behind my house. I went out to the edge of that field and hung three hives. The trees were in a row about 10 feet apart. In one month, I filled all three hives. One hive I filled two times. So I think you can hang them a little closer than a mile. I had three within 30 feet and was pretty successful.

- Hive Types? I have used Nucs and Hive Bodies. Both work great. Nucs, however, will struggle to hold a big swarm. They must be recovered quickly or they will swarm again thus you lose half the bees. I like to put a least one frame of comb in the trap. I use my deadouts if I have them but a frame with foundation would probably work. Lets face it, bees are attracted to the old hive. That's why they keep returning. Most of those spots contain wax and other materials that are common in hives. Wax, propolis, or pheromones will be inviting to them. I normally put a generous amount of lemongrass oil in the hive. I like putting it on top of the frames, in the back of the hive on the bottom board, and all over the entrance both inside and outside the hive.

Good luck. It is a fun thing to do and a great way to get bees and queens that are native to your area.

[LKBruns]

I built 10 swarm traps this year.  I built them to be basically the size of an 8 frame deep.  I dado'd a frame rail and kept all demensions the same as a standard 8 frame hive.  The volume is very close to the recommended volume of 35 - 40 liters and if I do catch a swarm I do not have to be in a big hurry to relocate and hive it.  I plan on putting frames in it for them to start on.

I cut a 1"1/4 hole in the side and put a NUC entrance disc on it so it can easily be closed up.

If I happen to catch swarms with defensive traits (I'm reluctant to use the other buzz word because they are all still honeybees)  I will requeen ASAP.

LB