Absconded hives

[ldeano]

We had a beautiful 70 degree day, so I thought I would go check some hives.  Found 2 hives had absconded, and I say absconded because there were very few dead bees in the hives.
The first one had 2 dead bees on the bottom board and had been gone a while because you could tell that most of the upper brood box had been robbed out of honey.  last time I checked them was a little over a month ago and the upper supper was about 90% full of honey.  The second hive was about the same story.  2 months ago full upper brood box of honey only the one seemed to have recently has left.  about 5 dead bees on the bottom board, a few dead brood that died while uncapping them selves and most of the upper brood box still full of honey.  The third hive in this location seemed to be doing fine and still had the upper brood box about 80% full of honey.  Is there something I am missing here. I have been racking my brain trying to figure out if I did something or did not do something I should have and I can't figure out why in the middle of a mild winter with a nearly full box of honey they would just up and leave.  No mass of dead bees in or outside of the hive so I don't think they died.  Any ideas or things I might have missed.  Also I should mention that neither hive had Wax Moths or small hive beetles when I found them.

[D Coates]

Any capped or open brood?

[ldeano]

Very Few Capped brood, A few died emerging, no open brood or eggs that I noticed.

[capt44]

There have been several beekeepers in in central Arkansas that has had bees Abscond this winter.

[BeeMaster2]

I lost several hives last year to absconding. The same symptoms as yours. I think it is African genetics. When the food is scarce, they move to find a new food source.
Jim

[GSF]

Ideano, seems like it is becoming quite common. I've heard of even more since my last post on here;

http://www.beemaster.com/forum/index.php?topic=47755.0

[Blacksheep]

I lose at hive which had about 65 lbs of honey in the top 10frame deep box. I really think I didn't realize  the queen was failing and as the bees got old they started to die off.The hive had very few bees in it except robbers had started as they found the hive weak.I didn't see the bees leave but they are gone!I think failing or bad queens is one major cause we are having losses.

[tjc1]

Sounds all too familiar - lost my two hives in November with exactly the same details...

[KeyLargoBees]

So here is a thought......with the advent of the digital  "information age" and people from all over the country/world instantly sharing their experiences.....and an increase in the number of neophyte beekeepers across the country is it possible that between those two factors we are just hearing about a greater number of absconds...while the statistical percentage of hives under management which abscond stays relatively close to the norm?

I know when you lose a hive (I lost one last week and since I have 4 thats a 25% loss) you question yourself and your practices....but is it really any worse now than it has been?

Or possibly as Jim states all southern feral colonies and feral drones who mate with swarm and with backyard queens are at some level "africanized" so the swarminess and the absconds might just be a combination of factors....at least in the south.

[ldeano]

When the food is scarce, they move to find a new food source.
Jim

I wonder then if I had open feed sugar water &/or pollen would this possibly lowered the likely hood of the absconding?  but then I run the risk of them over filling the brood chamber and the queen having no place to lay and then swarming.  Everyday I realize how much I don't know

[KPF]

So here is a thought......with the advent of the digital  "information age" and people from all over the country/world instantly sharing their experiences.....and an increase in the number of neophyte beekeepers across the country is it possible that between those two factors we are just hearing about a greater number of absconds...while the statistical percentage of hives under management which abscond stays relatively close to the norm?

I know when you lose a hive (I lost one last week and since I have 4 thats a 25% loss) you question yourself and your practices....but is it really any worse now than it has been?

Or possibly as Jim states all southern feral colonies and feral drones who mate with swarm and with backyard queens are at some level "africanized" so the swarminess and the absconds might just be a combination of factors....at least in the south.

That's a good thought and probably part of it. 

My club in Eastern Massachusetts had a TON of abscondings (few dead bees, empty hive, a super or more of honey in the hive).  The experience level of the beek was varied. Lots of newbies who installed packages in spring got whacked but so did some very experienced beekeepers, one of whom has an apiary of just local survivor stock. It could just be random variation. Our Fall was very warm. (Dec was hottest on record), so maybe that was part of it.  Maybe they got confused and thought it was swarming season. Seemed to be no correlation between beeks who treated for mites and those who didn't.  No one can figure it out. I thought my hive was fine as I saw bees going in and out. When I checked it, I had only a small cluster of bees in the top honey super. (Maybe 50 or so max). To top it off, a marked queen was still there. I pulled the queen out just before a major cold snap (< 15 degrees) and gave her to a club member who could winter her over.  Two deeps, which had been half packed with honey and brood in early October, were bone dry. All of the experienced beeks in the club say this is very unusual. A big mystery.

[BeeMaster2]

Jeff,
With 3/4 of all commercial hives going to California and a large portion of those over wintering in Florida, the genetics are spread around the country every year. 
Jim

[tjc1]

I'm only in 4 years as a beek, but this is the first I recall of hearing so many reports of fall/winter abscondings (my own two hives among them).

[HillBilly2]

You know, we ought to cut out a section of brood comb and a handful of dead bees and mail to the state bee testing lab. Find out what the real cause is. Beats guessing by a long shot.

All Y'all that haven't cleaned up yet can still do so. See if it's some new killer disease, poison, some old disease, or just stupid bees. There has to be a reason, lets find out and post it here.

Anyone able to hook us up with address to send these to?

Thanks!

[Michael Bush]

For future reference, go to my site, to the "Pests" section on the left to "Enemeies of the bees" and click on that.  Then go to the left and look for AFB and click on that.  It will take you to here: http://www.bushfarms.com/beespests.htm#afb  Click on "Beltsville Lab" in the fourth paragraph.  Which will take you here:  http://www.ars.usda.gov/Services/docs.htm?docid=7473

[BuGGy-DMC]

I think the communication part of this is big. It might have been a problem for years, but people are just starting to talk about it and pass the news along.

For me having hosted 3 feral colonies for several years I never thought about or worried about anything, they were just always there. If I wanted some honey I would smoke them a little, find the best looking comb and cut it off.

After moving one of them into a hive and having it abscond a couple months later I started to read and learn all the things I should have done to keep them there.

Pests, genetics, food sources, and general conditions could all be factors and if any way possible more information should be collected on the specific hive. At the same time you need to take a look from 30,000ft and look at the big overall picture.

[rober]

I had my 2 strongest hive abscond in November. it was warm last week & I decided to put candy boards on any hives that needed them & while checking I found 2 more empty hives. all of these hives had 40 or more #'s of honey & brood. the ones last fall had 2 or more frames of brood. I've been checking locally & watching other forums & this is widespread. something else that was unusual last fall was that I got several calls for swarms in September & October. could these have been some of those absconded hives??? the most common guess as to the cause is varrora mites. one of the hives here barely had the 100 bee minimum for testing so I sent them off to the usda lab. there were no varrora or tracheal mites but a nosema spore count of 5 million per bee. I've been asking this question for 2 years now & cannot find the answer. how many nosema spores are too many?

[little john]

You know, we ought to cut out a section of brood comb and a handful of dead bees and mail to the state bee testing lab. Find out what the real cause is.

That's one approach, certainly. Another approach would be to investigate why this isn't happening in other regions - and then try to establish what differences exist. I haven't heard talk of this happening in Europe, for example, so the idea of Africanised genetics sounds quite plausible.
You see, it may not be a disease or poisoning at all - if it were, then you'd expect to find a carpet of dead bees in or around the otherwise empty hive. But this doesn't appear to be the case - just an empty, abandonded hive.

The primary drive of all animals is to survive - and if the weather has been unusually warm, but without the raised amounts of food coming in which would normally accompany such warm weather - this might well be stimulating a dormant trigger to re-locate to wherever food is likely to be more plentiful, and as such is perfectly natural and healthy bee behaviour - for those genetics.
LJ

[KeyLargoBees]

Thats what I am leaning towards LJ....and as another poster stated with all of the migratory trucking of bees across the US there has to have been some spread of Africanized genetics...not enough to noticeably change the temper of the hives maybe but the genetics are still there in some smal percentage....Other than a truly mean hive that is suspected of being AHB who really gets the genetics tested of what are considered "average" hives?....if we don't test we will never know ;-P

[tjc1]

I sent samples to Beltsville -this year,  no disease, varroa present. Last year,besides the varroa, two hives showed Nosema spores, one hive high and one low count.