Puzzled

Beewildered61 · March 16, 2016, 04:51:57 PM

I just saw a huge swarm yesterday, I think was my biggest hive. Today my smaller hive is acting strangely. I was walking around the yard and saw a cloud of bees over the small hive, when I walked around to the front of it, there were bees all over the front. I stood there watching them about 15 minutes and all of a sudden the bees on the front of the hive flew into the air, swarming around the hive. I watched them a little longer and then went in the house for a bit. When I came back out, there was this little ball of bees on a limb about 20 feet from the hive, like a mini swarm... I don't have a clue as to what is going on.

PhilK · March 16, 2016, 08:31:29 PM

Looks like they swarmed. Could be an after-swarm if they had already swarmed previously without you noticing?

Beewildered61 · March 16, 2016, 08:43:27 PM

I would be very surprised. This hive was a late bloomer, so to speak. I got it last summer as a nuc and didn't feed enough, by fall there was only the bottom deep full of bees and about 4 frames in the top deep, and a small amount of honey in a few frames. I just checked it two weeks ago, and they had a small amount of brood in two frames in the top deep, and a tiny bit of honey and pollen on the sides, I didn't look in the bottom deep at the time. Actually there was about 3 frames in the top that didn't even have comb, so I tried to interlace them with some frames that had comb.

BeeMaster2 · March 16, 2016, 10:10:47 PM

Beewildered,
A few years ago I had a really small hive in in my observation hive that just barely made it through winter. I moved it in the fall because it was so small and it just kept shrinking. By December 22, our build up start date, the brood area was just a little bigger than a silver dollar. They grew quickly to cover the 2 bottom deep frames and with lots of space over head (6 empty frames) they swarmed. I was very surprised.
Jim

Beewildered61 · March 16, 2016, 11:07:48 PM

Well, the guy I bought them from said they were Italian x Carniolan, so I thought they would build up fast, but was starting to think maybe the queen wasn't so good.... when could I check them, without possibly destroying a queen cell? I ask, because I have had it happen before.

PhilK · March 17, 2016, 01:59:22 AM

Quote from: Beewildered61 on March 16, 2016, 08:43:27 PM
...I didn't look in the bottom deep at the time. Actually there was about 3 frames in the top that didn't even have comb, so I tried to interlace them with some frames that had comb.

Perhaps your bottom deep had no laying space left for the queen? Frames without comb are no good to lay in, so maybe the queen thought she was out of space and decided to take off? Not sure!

Acebird · March 17, 2016, 10:09:16 AM

Quote from: Beewildered61 on March 16, 2016, 04:51:57 PM
I don't have a clue as to what is going on.

Did the big hive swarm and take over the little one? I call that a war swarm.
I split a hive late one year that had queen cells and in a couple of weeks it took over (I presume, did not witness) a small hive that barely made it through winter. My supposition is based on finding the small hive busting at the seems with bees and the population of the other hive cut in half. I was overwhelmed with hives as a result and moved this hive to a friends house. It later swarmed and die out infested with hive beetles. It was not being watched.

Beewildered61 · March 17, 2016, 01:11:11 PM

No, at first I thought another small swarm was trying to get into the small hive though. I still haven't seen the big swarm from the other day, it's so thick up in that leland cypress, you can't even see a big bee ball. I guess they are still up there, I am trying to keep an eye out for them. The little ball on the pine limb is still there this morning. I am thinking of trying to put them in another hive, just don't know where to put it yet... and I have the baited hive I was hoping the big swarm will go to, but I hate to put the little swarm in it.

If that big swarm would have taken over that small hive, it would be easy to tell. :)

GSF · March 17, 2016, 10:10:23 PM

BW, if you plan on catching one of those swarms and it's been a couple of days, then time is of the essence. Another point, they will be mad and wanting to blame it on someone.

tjc1 · March 17, 2016, 10:24:59 PM

Quote from: GSF on March 17, 2016, 10:10:23 PM
BW, if you plan on catching one of those swarms and it's been a couple of days, then time is of the essence. Another point, they will be mad and wanting to blame it on someone.

That's funny!

Beewildered61 · March 17, 2016, 10:29:33 PM

Well, when I went out this morning, the small bee ball was still on the limb... as far as the big swarm, I can't see them, so I don't even know if they are still there or gone. I went out after lunch and this is what I found. The bee ball was gone, but there were some bees flying around the limbs and in the area, but some bees still on the limb, and some bees had attached themselves on the robber screen in a wad. I don't have a clue as to what might be going on here...The empty hive I have set up, with lemongrass oil in it, there was about 15 or 20 bees that kept flying around the base, underneath the screened bottom, I saw one, maybe two go in the hive. I am wondering if these are a lot of scouts checking out the hive?

images hosting

GSF · March 17, 2016, 10:33:36 PM

The top picture is probably swarm left overs. Likely scouts that came back too late. They probably still smell the pheromone to some degree.

If those are the bees in front you are referring to I'd definitely say they're up to something. Were you able to look up through the sbb to see if they were in the hive? I'd give it a couple of days before I opened it up.

Beewildered61 · March 17, 2016, 10:38:54 PM

The bees on the front of this screen is the same hive I think they came from yesterday. I wondered if by some chance, they tried to go back?
No, I have one of those Heart small hive beetle trap bottom boards, but I don't have the tray in, still hard to see... but I tried to lean down and see if by chance they were on the bottom of the screen, and I didn't see any....

deknow · March 18, 2016, 01:17:35 AM

I've seen things that look like swarms, cluster on a branch way too high for a few hours, then return to the hive. They were not my hives, so I don't have a good firsthand feel for the hives. I think they were queens mating.

One of them I shook the cluster into a pail and caged the queen. The bees left and left the queen behind.

Beewildered61 · March 18, 2016, 12:38:54 PM

Both tiny dabs of bees are still in the same spot, a few on the branch and a few on the robber screen. I don't understand why those are on the robber screen especially.

BeeMaster2 · March 18, 2016, 12:51:56 PM

Quote from: deknow on March 18, 2016, 01:17:35 AM
I've seen things that look like swarms, cluster on a branch way too high for a few hours, then return to the hive. They were not my hives, so I don't have a good firsthand feel for the hives. I think they were queens mating.

One of them I shook the cluster into a pail and caged the queen. The bees left and left the queen behind.

That indicates that the queen was not mated. She may have been going out on her first maiden flight and got tired and rested. I have watched a swarm leave a hive and caught the queen as she exited. I put her in a queen cage and put her in a nuc. The bees would not enter the box. That was because she was going out on her maiden flight and the bees went out to protect her by overloading the air with bees.
Jim

Acebird · March 18, 2016, 01:09:35 PM

So do you think he witnessed a supercedure queen going out on a mating flight?

BeeMaster2 · March 18, 2016, 01:55:28 PM

Real good chance.

Beewildered61 · March 18, 2016, 02:29:44 PM

Well, I did wonder when I opened the hive up the last two times, because in the top deep, on two different frames, there was only a patch of brood about as big as a 50 cent piece. According to the queen the guy showed me, she was super good, all the frames had a solid full pattern of brood on them, but I was suspicious he pulled a switcheroo on me before I took my hive with the 5 frames from the nuc home. The queen he showed me had a blue dot on her, and every time I opened the hive, I never saw a queen with a blue dot. And since he had said they were Italian x Carniolian, I was expecting the hive to be bursting with brood when I opened it, the last couple of months.
So maybe the queen wasn't the good one and the bees replaced her......

Acebird · March 18, 2016, 08:20:33 PM

Quote from: Beewildered61 on March 18, 2016, 02:29:44 PM
I never saw a queen with a blue dot.

Did you ever see a queen with another color? That would be real bad. Or have you never seen the queen again? Bad but not as bad. Before we throw him under the bus make sure what you are saying is fact and not emotion.