Why are they creating queen cells in this situation?

Dallasbeek · May 26, 2016, 09:03:00 PM

For them to leave, there had to be a queen, either laying or virgin. Once they decide to swarm, they will swarm, unless made to think they DID swarm.

What about absconding? Will they abscond without a queen? If they are escaping something like small hive beetles, they will abscond, but I don't know if they require a queen in the absconding mass. Any evidence either way?

sc-bee · May 27, 2016, 09:37:16 AM

Deleted

sc-bee · May 27, 2016, 09:43:24 AM

Deleted duplicate post....heck no one is reading the first one I posted anyway

sc-bee · May 27, 2016, 09:54:22 AM

Quote from: Acebird on May 26, 2016, 07:15:31 PM
SC he has already put her in a nuc by herself and hasn't found her yet. Do you see how easy a solution that was?

Am I being bull headed

No I don't see how easy that was....she was not in a box by herself, In a box with cells. Big difference....IMHO...But I agree OP did what was best at the time. But no Ace I don't understand your comment:

Quote from: Duane on May 24, 2016, 09:20:21 PM

How often should I keep looking through trying to find the queen?
Where did that get you? What will you do if you find her?

>So early Monday, I split the 12 frames up into 3 boxes. More than one cell in each. Still didn't see the queen, but there were still eggs<

A queen in a box with cells. Somebody loses. Queen in a spit with cells they may still swarm. In particular because they were already in swarm mode. Maybe it is just me? Done with this post anyway, moving on

OldMech · May 27, 2016, 10:20:18 AM

Nothing with bees is absolute, but making them feel like they did swarm is about playing the odds.. You have a better chance of keeping them if they think they did swarm.. on the order of 90% better chance. Normally when I do an artificial swarm they stay, but there have been a couple times they did not..

Ace, I do Rum and Coke, Diet Cherry Zero, because the rum is sweet, regular coke is too sweet for me, and then use Captain Morgan black ... and yeah, it really helps with the comfort zone!!!

Duane · May 29, 2016, 10:10:45 AM

Well, I couldn't help it but had to look at them. I looked in the first one and lots of bees. I gently was blowing on them to try and see the cells and look for eggs. Instantly, there were several on my veil right where my mouth was. I didn't use smoke, thinking I didn't need it, but maybe I did. No eggs, but did see the cells. Went to the next box, and happened to breath on them before pulling any frames, and several flew up at me. No eggs, but did see the cells. I opened the third box and seemed like a few less bees, all were calm, a lot different than the other two. I pulled a frame and saw eggs! Then found the queen on the next frame. I might have messed up (originally) as I found no queen cells in this one, only the queen cup. But no egg in it now. But it didn't need a queen cell, so that turned out pretty nicely. Is this an example of when there's no queen, the bees are a bit more feisty?

Given this time of year, the main flow starting on, and an extra queen cell in one of the boxes, would it be a good thing or bad thing to try and get an additional box out of them? Like, maybe three frames each instead of four?

sc-bee · May 29, 2016, 11:55:55 AM

Quote from: Duane on May 29, 2016, 10:10:45 AM
Given this time of year, the main flow starting on, and an extra queen cell in one of the boxes, would it be a good thing or bad thing to try and get an additional box out of them? Like, maybe three frames each instead of four?

Would be no issue at all. Get what you can. In particular since your flow is in front of you. Are the cells close yet?

Acebird · May 29, 2016, 12:56:09 PM

Quote from: Duane on May 29, 2016, 10:10:45 AM
Is this an example of when there's no queen, the bees are a bit more feisty?

It could be or it could also be the CO2 from your breath. Nice job by the way.

sc-bee · May 29, 2016, 02:39:50 PM

I too blow on them to get them moving. Yep the carbon dioxide is what they key in on. Ever notice how they go straight to your face

BeeMaster2 · May 29, 2016, 02:47:43 PM

The instant reaction when you blow in the hive comes from thousands of years of bears sticking my their heads in the hive and breathing in there as they take a bite of brood. That instant reaction has probably saved a hive be or two over the years.
Jim

Duane · May 30, 2016, 11:20:48 AM

If I remember correctly, I saw one cell that was capped. I take it that I have a little less than 8 days from then.

I was wondering about the breathing on them. With my previous attempt at keeping bees, I never noticed that. These two nucs behaved differently, with one more so. I thought about if it was possible to breed that out of them. But then any varmint sticking his nose in the hive could get away with it. So I guess all the more reason to always wear a face veil. I'd like to be bold, but the thought of being stung in the mouth is not appealing. The more defensive hive I was messing with and then moved away to take off my suit and a bee came looking for me. I quickly pulled the veil back over my head, but had already taken off my gloves. The bee just buzzed around my hands, but was more interested in my face. I even wiggled my hands in front of her but she didn't seem interested in stinging them. Never landed on my veil, but when I blew on her, she seemed more aggressive.

Anyway, regarding the hive I moved the queen out of April 14, about 45 days ago, and no queen cells raised, of which I added more eggs and still no queen cell. Now there's a capped queen cell, in the middle of a frame that's been in the box from the beginning. There's still some capped drone brood. The only thought I have was there were two laying queens, I happened to move the younger laying one to a new box, and the old failing queen was laying drone eggs, and finally managed to lay one worker egg. Which somehow, the bees decided was good enough and didn't see the need of raising more from the eggs I added. Any more reasonable thoughts of what might have happened?

GSF · May 31, 2016, 04:20:23 PM

If you want the bees to move put a "little" smoke on them or gently touch them with the back of your hand.

sc-bee · May 31, 2016, 08:33:22 PM

Quote from: GSF on May 31, 2016, 04:20:23 PM
If you want the bees to move put a "little" smoke on them or gently touch them with the back of your hand.

Back of your hand ??? .. heck the tips of my fat fingers are less sensitive than the back of my hands

Dallasbeek · May 31, 2016, 08:39:32 PM

I think that was his point, but I don't know that for sure. Not the back pf MY hand, though.

GSF · June 01, 2016, 11:08:52 AM

Nope, the back of your hand :) Do it gently as in excuse me please. I've never got stung that way. I can't think of any other way that I haven't never got stung, everyway but that one.

sc-bee · June 01, 2016, 11:36:29 PM

Quote from: GSF on June 01, 2016, 11:08:52 AM
Nope, the back of your hand :) Do it gently as in excuse me please. I've never got stung that way.

My mitts are too big and shaky for that. It would be like dropping a 50 ton crane out of the sky..

Duane · June 10, 2016, 04:49:48 PM

Thinking back through this, and looking at my other hive, I'm not sure I understand the space issue.

If someone had foundation frames, had a box getting full of bees, and put the next box on with just the foundation, would they move up or would they need to have frames moved up? That is, is my issue empty frames without an easy way for the bees to walk up, whereas if I had empty comb, they should have been alright?

I have the other hive that is looking pretty much similar. The bottom box is full of brood. I have pulled a few frames up, with an empty frame between them. But they don't seem to be doing much other than making brood. The sweet clover is looking towards half done and I'm don't see any honey for the winter in any of the hives.

Psparr · June 10, 2016, 07:30:36 PM

They will do what they want. It's hard sometimes. Is the hive really populated?
A packed hive seems to draw comb better. But they won't make it if they feel they don't need it.

Duane · June 20, 2016, 07:44:41 PM

Yes it was pretty full of bees, they're hanging outside the box. Afraid they're going to swarm. I used all my frames up on the other boxes so now I'm making boxes and getting frames.

I have found larva in all three new splits. The 4th with the queen has all 8 frames with brood again! And last week seems like they just had 5 frames. I added another box and moved a frame up. I should have moved 2, but when your finger is hurting and starting to swell, sometimes you just want to get done with it and don't think clearly...

I'm starting to think I have a few bees. Not all are doing the best. But who knows, maybe I'm learning a few things.

Duane · July 11, 2016, 07:07:18 PM

I had split the swarming hive into 4 separate hives. One of the hives did not have eggs as soon as I expected nor the others. So the next time I went to look at them, I cut out some eggs from one of the others and was going to insert it. But they already had eggs and I saw the queen. Then a little less than 3 weeks later, no eggs, no brood, no queen. But several capped queen cells! They were up in the comb, not at the bottom.

What's some possibilities of what happened? I suppose one is that I accidentally killed her.