Hot Bees in the shade

KeyLargoBees · June 12, 2016, 03:37:47 PM

Ok here is a question for the group....Can full shade hives be more defensive when that is not their "natural" environment?

I have caught 24 swarms so far this spring....not all of them viable for one reason or another but still have gone from 2 hives to 21 and all the ladies with the exception of bad weather inspections where I knew better have been docile to very mildly defensive and very easily workable in shorts and a veil and long sleeved shirt....All of my trapping has been along a power line right of way and all of the known feral hives are inside hollow power poles which get 6-8 hrs of full sun daily.

Pulled three more traps last week with new swarms in them from my trap line...2 of the traps were ~200 yards or so apart so conceivably could have come from the same feral colony (there are probably 6 feral colonies within a mile radius so it is in in no way certain)....but the other was probably 2 miles away so likely different genetics. These three went to a host yard where the host is considering getting into beekeeping and he wanted to watch and help. He has an old hot tub deck in his backyard which is level and where I placed the hive stand...it is in full shade this time of year based on sun angle and while I prefer some sun on hives I have seen a lot of write ups about how the full sun vs the hive beetle thing is a myth and its really hive strength that makes the difference.

Long story short....I went to move the bees out of the swarm traps this morning (they had been in their new location 2 days) and I wanted to get them into permanent homes.... when I smoked them and cracked the lid on the first trap they literally boiled out of the hive at me...not all of the bees but a good 100+ for what ended up being 4 frames of bees.....moved on to the next and same result and then again on the third....all three colonies did it so it wasn't just a fluke on one of them. They were super defensive and I had to go back to the house and put on long pants and break out the gloves after the first 10 stings to the legs and hands but I got them all transferred over....I felt like I was working south Texas bees....which isn't typical of the other 21 swarms I have caught this year....is it possible the change from what they are used to (full sun in the poles) to deep shade has them cranky? Or should I be considering a pinch and replace strategy? I may try moving them to a full sun yard and seeing if they settle down any before I pinch queens.... just find it odd that three traps where at least one of them has separate genetics would all three react this way...seems a little too coincidental.....especially since I worked 10 full sun hives for inspections earlier in the morning at another yard in shorts and no gloves.

Just wanted to share and see if anyone had ever seen something similar.

divemaster1963 · June 12, 2016, 03:44:52 PM

How is the flow going. If it is ending and the swarm is store shy they can be very defensive. I place extra frames of honey in new Haven ves just to calm them when the flow cuts down.

John

John

KeyLargoBees · June 12, 2016, 03:59:12 PM

they all three had drawn comb like crazy and had at least a full frame of uncapped nectar in addition to breed frames drawn in the ~ 6 days they have been in the traps. None of these swarms this year have ever taken any significant syrup but I can try with these and see if that makes a difference.....To my knowledge flow is still on for the Jamaican Dogwoods and some other late blooming trees and the Mangrove bloom is just about to start so we wont see a slow down in the nectar flow until early August and even then it isnt a dearth just a very slow flow.

We don't have a "gangbuster" flow like up north but its pretty steady year round with a heavy flow from February through the end of July.

GSF · June 12, 2016, 07:54:07 PM

Jeff, a couple of my hives were bent on seeking out folks to sting earlier this year. This was during the flow. Now I can go out there and weed eat around the hives and have no response. Before, if some of the guard bees saw you they stung you.

KeyLargoBees · June 13, 2016, 08:31:36 AM

I was never really happy with this spot anyway. If they dont calm down I will move them to another yard that doesn't have the proximity to people this one has and see what happens and just involve this gentleman in the beekeeping chores and if in the future he decides to get his own we will Re-evaluate placement...I am really not a fan of bees in the deep shade....no matter what the current thought process is on SHB.

BeeMaster2 · June 13, 2016, 01:12:26 PM

Jeff,
Now that the gallberry/black gum/palmetto is over i have moved my bees back in town. They are in almost full shade and have been for years. They are very calm. Most of the time I do not need protection.
Look for some other variable. Pressure change is a big one. Previous harassment at the last location may have caused it. It may bee as simple as there was nothing flowing at the time of day when you were working on them.
Jim

KeyLargoBees · June 13, 2016, 02:34:50 PM

Don't think its a flow issue...my home yard is 2 blocks away and nothing going on with the hives here and I had to add supers this weekend....they are still stashing honey away. Don't think it was pressure change since it was mid day on a sunny cloudless day...we didn't get any storms until hours later.

One thing I didn't think about and it may or may not have relevance...this guy is big into ATV and motorcycles...nothing strong but there is a slight scent of gas/solvent/paint on days where there isn't a breeze. I wonder if they are reacting to that? Wasn't enough to raise a concern when I did a site visit but now that they had a bad reaction I am looking for any reason that may have set them off.

I may see about moving them to another yard for a few days and see if they settle down as a test if they remain mean at inspection time next week.

BeeMaster2 · June 13, 2016, 08:28:57 PM

Good luck Jeff. Let us know how it works out.
Jim

KeyLargoBees · June 19, 2016, 05:07:05 PM

Still no idea what drove all three hives into a frenzy last week but here it is one week later and they are meek as kittens....always something new.

BeeMaster2 · June 19, 2016, 09:18:13 PM

iddee · June 19, 2016, 09:58:29 PM

""I have seen a lot of write ups about how the full sun vs the hive beetle thing is a myth and its really hive strength that makes the difference.""

Where did you read that bovine feces??

I have moved too many beetle infested hives from shade to sun and saw the beetles disappear to ever believe that. The hives remained the same strength and the beetles left as soon as the hive went into full sun.

tjc1 · June 19, 2016, 11:09:25 PM

Does anyone know what the connection is between sun and hive beetles? I mean, it's not like there is any sun getting onto the hives one way or another. Does it have to do with temperature?

BeeMaster2 · June 19, 2016, 11:40:10 PM

I know the SHBs do not like higher temps. The bees keep the brood at 93-95 degrees. Putting the hive in the sun raises the temperature around the area of the brood. This may be the difference.
Jim

PhilK · June 19, 2016, 11:44:40 PM

Quote from: sawdstmakr on June 19, 2016, 11:40:10 PM
I know the SHBs do not like higher temps. The bees keep the brood at 93-95 degrees. Putting the hive in the sun raises the temperature around the area of the brood. This may be the difference.
Jim

I don't understand the logic here.. don't the bees keep the hive at that temperature whether it's raining, snowing, sunny, or shady? A hive in the shade should therefore have the same internal temperature as a hive in the sun right?

Dallasbeek · June 20, 2016, 12:24:58 AM

Makes sense to me. Is it the bright light? But the hive is sealed from light, right?

iddee · June 20, 2016, 06:10:39 AM

The bees don't heat and cool the hive to the same temp throughout. They heat and cool the broodnest mostly. The broodnest and the hive internal extremities can be several degrees different. The bees corral the SHB into the far corners, where the temps are most different.

GSF · June 20, 2016, 08:12:07 AM

Lots of good questions and logic. I can't explain it but there is certainly a difference in my yard when it comes to shade or no shade. The hives with the most sun has the least beetles. The closer to the rear where the shade hits first has more beetles.

I caught two swarms and put them in someone else's boxes. I set them under a tree because this person was coming to get them when I said they were ready. Well two months has past and they ain't come got them yet. I check them the other day and there were 15-20 beetles in each of them. Far more than any 2 or 3 other hives combined.

KeyLargoBees · June 20, 2016, 05:24:53 PM

The reference I made to shade or sun not mattering comes from some commercial beekeepers in a facebook group that got into a discussion where they compared 30 hives in full sun and 30 in full shade and did beetle counts....not the most scientific study especially if the area they were counting in already had a low beetle pop :-P.....and then some other threads on that "other" forum which shall not be named. All my other hives are in full to partial sun and let me tell you...working them in the tropics June through September sucks ;-P I didn't place these hives in the shade for my comfort though it was just the only place he had available...pretty posh accommodations actually...its an old hot tub platform made out of trex....if the ladies stay gentle I will monitor beetle loads and see where it goes.

Oldbeavo · June 22, 2016, 07:28:26 AM

In Oz there seems to be more SHB where the hive humidity increases, so is it more exposure to breeze/ wind in the sun and so there is reduced humidity when compared with a sheltered shade area.
Is SHB more of a problem in the south where humidity is higher.
We run lid vents and floor vents to help maintain hive environment, SHB has not been a problem, yet!

Acebird · June 25, 2016, 09:05:29 AM

Jeff, I am wondering if someone was messing with the hives in the shaded location. "Look I got a beehive, come see" kind of thing.