Recombining split with the hive it was split from

RustyUPNY · June 19, 2016, 11:10:23 AM

I made a split from a hive that looked like it was going to swarm by moving a frame with queen cells and brood into a nuc box along with frames of honey, nurse bees, etc. my last inspection looked like there was zero queen activity in the hive. Today is the 3 week mark from when I made the split with queen cells that should have hatched with in days of making it so... If I don't see evidence of a queen I would like to add them back to the original hive.
Question: can I simply but the frames and bees back into the first hive, or should I use a news paper method? I don't have a spare 10 frame deep so I may be SOL unless I can just drop the frames back in. Thoughts?

Colobee · June 19, 2016, 11:42:28 AM

As you referred - a newspaper combine would be best. Even a makeshift box would do - it only has to last a day or so.

If nothing else - sprinkle a little sugar syrup on both and then keep an eye on the surviving queen. 'Not recommeded, but desperate times...

Perhaps someone else will have a better suggestion.

RustyUPNY · June 19, 2016, 12:12:41 PM

The hive it's going back into I am pretty sure is currently queenless... I put a frame of eggs in there Wednesday to see if they would make one. I ordered one as well for good measure (arriving next week). I could probably shake the bees out of the top deep in the main hive (it's not too full just yet) and add the split back to the hive via the top deep and news paper the middle.

GSF · June 20, 2016, 01:56:11 PM

If it were me I'd give them a couple more days just to be safe. Here's some "Bee Math" from Michael's website;

http://bushfarms.com/beesmath.htm

Michael Bush · June 21, 2016, 08:59:06 AM

>Today is the 3 week mark from when I made the split with queen cells that should have hatched with in days of making it so... If I don't see evidence of a queen I would like to add them back to the original hive.

Too soon. They probably would start with a four day old larvae (just hatched) and a queen would emerge 12 days later. That queen would likely be laying 14 days after that but it could be as long as 21 days. That means you should have a laying queen in four weeks probably and five weeks possibly. They could even start with an egg in which case the queen may not emerge for 16 days and 21 days after that is the drop dead date. So that's 37 days... you are at 21 days. You need to wait 16 more days...

Oldbeavo · June 21, 2016, 09:29:42 AM

Are the bees polishing cells in anticipation of a laying queen, there may be a young queen present but not laying yet.
Polishing is a good indicator of wait a bit longer.

Michael Bush · June 21, 2016, 11:10:41 AM

>Polishing is a good indicator of wait a bit longer.

Yes.

RustyUPNY · June 21, 2016, 07:51:37 PM

Turns out the split had a queen and the main hive did not. Learning experience indeed.

PhilK · June 21, 2016, 08:37:43 PM

How can you tell if bees are 'polishing cells'?

Psparr · June 21, 2016, 09:15:53 PM

They look shiny "polished"

Oldbeavo · June 22, 2016, 07:15:24 AM

PhilK,
The brood cells almost look metallic shiny inside when they are polished.

Acebird · June 22, 2016, 08:06:40 AM

Splitting and letting them make their own queen is a measure of patience. You either have it or you don't. Very hard thing to learn.

Michael Bush · June 22, 2016, 09:48:47 AM

If you can't distinguish "polished" look for empty cells. A nice oval of empty cells surrounded by nectar, pollen etc. is a good sign there is a queen about to start laying.

RustyUPNY · June 22, 2016, 06:18:40 PM

Quote from: Acebird on June 22, 2016, 08:06:40 AM
Splitting and letting them make their own queen is a measure of patience. You either have it or you don't. Very hard thing to learn.

This is my first year so I want to go in every day (but keep it to a week or longer). It's been interesting and fun indeed.

I just noticed you're also in upstate NY as well!

Acebird · June 22, 2016, 11:04:17 PM

It is a big state with a lot of different terrain so why don't you just list where your are? City, county, or town would do.

RustyUPNY · June 23, 2016, 08:00:56 AM

Happy?

GSF · June 23, 2016, 08:22:00 AM

Happy? - I know I am (lol)

Naw, seriously - a lot of beekeeping questions can be answered more accurately if we have an idea of someone's geographical location. Those bees will keep you busy.

RustyUPNY · June 23, 2016, 08:55:38 AM

Fair enough. I didn't have "upstate NY" there figuring it would be close enough :)

Acebird · June 23, 2016, 09:05:59 AM

Some people consider UPstate as anything outside of the big Apple. Quite a difference.

If you say Buffalo, Rochester, Syracuse, Utica, Albany, Lake Placid, or Poughkeepsie it is much easier to differentiate the differences in micro climates.