Hive Dynamic question

swarmswapper · July 03, 2016, 09:47:29 AM

A question for the collective ~ as I patiently await the arrival of the new queen ......

Q. If there has not been a queen in a hive for a couple of weeks (waiting on supercedure's to replace queen) therefore eventually a period of no larva to feed will the hive continue to store nectar and honey as before the loss of the queen or will they wait for a new queen (and her pheromones ... ) to emerge to initiate this process? Perhaps they would just slow down but continue on instinct. I have seen on this site where it is suggested that a hive with supercedure cells does not consider itself queen less ....

The hive has been very busy with lots of coming and goings so I am assume they are actively foraging and bringing in stores. This make me think that perhaps this hive will have lots of honey on hand as they have not been feeding larva?

john

Psparr · July 03, 2016, 10:11:16 AM

They will pack in the honey. Some bee keepers will remove a Queen before a flow so the bees can focus on storing honey instead of raising brood.

BeeMaster2 · July 03, 2016, 10:41:14 AM

You may have a queen in the hive and do not know it. I do not recommend going into the hive again but on the last inspection did you see an area where the hood is located was there cells with no honey like they were waiting for the queen to start laying. If so you probably have a queen in this hive that has not started laying.
New queens need time to prove that they can produce larvae. Doing inspections before they do so can cause the bees to replace her.
My wife and I have been waiting for our newly hatched queen in our observation hive to start laying. The bees have kept the brood area open.
Jim

swarmswapper · July 03, 2016, 11:07:52 AM

thanks gents, no I am sure there is no queen Jim. This is a hive I took the queen out of on the 19th and left supercedure cells to develop.

Timing wise I will give it better part of another week before checking for eggs.

Psparr i was wondering that myself - seemed to be a lot of action bringing in stores but as i know there are no larva etc I thought there would be a good build up thx

Dallasbeek · July 03, 2016, 11:49:03 AM

Quote from: Psparr on July 03, 2016, 10:11:16 AM
They will pack in the honey. Some bee keepers will remove a Queen before a flow so the bees can focus on storing honey instead of raising brood.

Not disputing your statement, but why would a beekeeper remove a laying quenn? The bees tending to brood are too young to forage, are they not?

Psparr · July 03, 2016, 02:50:23 PM

Quote from: Dallasbeek on July 03, 2016, 11:49:03 AM
Quote from: Psparr on July 03, 2016, 10:11:16 AM
They will pack in the honey. Some bee keepers will remove a Queen before a flow so the bees can focus on storing honey instead of raising brood.

Not disputing your statement, but why would a beekeeper remove a laying quenn? The bees tending to brood are too young to forage, are they not?

They are, but the honey is not. Wink.
If there is no brood to tend to the nurse bees will be put to work foraging, It breaks the mite cycle, and produces more honey if that's what their trying to accomplish.

swarmswapper · July 03, 2016, 06:06:41 PM

ok so sticking with the theme of "Hive dynamics".... it is great to have this forum for a new beek

today was a beautiful sunny day high 70's low 80's nice breeze (spent most of it touring on the bike) when I checked my hive in question I found numerous drones in the grass all around the front of the hive? Some close some a meter away. Most still alive but unable to fly with several having frayed and broken wings. Some just barely alive and apparently dying? I found one with it's entrails still protruding from the abdomen and it was dead.

So, is this the tell tale signs of a mating flight? If so why all the dead drones, are they just whipped from the frantic day?[img[attachment=0]http://[/attachment]][/img]

Psparr · July 03, 2016, 06:14:05 PM

Not quite sure of that particular drone, but all the drones right outside the hive is the girls kicking them out.

swarmswapper · July 03, 2016, 06:48:20 PM

Psparr ~ any idea why they would do that now? I thought that was a fall thing? Could it be they have served their purpose and the mating flights are now done?

Psparr · July 03, 2016, 07:29:40 PM

You'd have to ask them that. They don't follow the books very well.

GSF · July 05, 2016, 02:16:32 PM

any idea why they would do that now?

dearth maybe?

swarmswapper · July 05, 2016, 04:02:33 PM

GSF - yes we are in a bit of waiting game for good nectar flow, that may well be it.

CrazyTalk · July 05, 2016, 04:14:14 PM

They don't seem to be pitching drones yet in Central VA (I'm about 3-4 hours from baltimore) - but this spring/summer has been a mess. Non-stop rain. I wouldn't be surprised if we're done, and I wouldn't be surprised to see a whole lot of things rebloom.

swarmswapper · July 05, 2016, 05:30:52 PM

Weather here this year has been totally 'off' no serious rain in weeks it seems, ground is hard and dry.

Could be a tad more than 4 hrs Crazytalk - seems I was around 13 hrs to Danville NC a few years back for a deer hunt ...

BeeMaster2 · July 06, 2016, 05:50:30 AM

This drone still has his sex organs. It looks like he also has a mite on his abdomin. Probably why he was kicked out.
Jim

Michael Bush · July 06, 2016, 08:51:52 AM

>no I am sure there is no queen Jim. This is a hive I took the queen out of on the 19th and left supercedure cells to develop.

If there were cells on the 19th and they were not capped (I don't know their state...) then they would have emerged probably 12 days or so later. The queen would not be laying sooner than two weeks after that and possibly three weeks. So I would not expect to see any queens before the 15th (9 days from now) and possibly not until the 22nd (16 days from now). Virgins are almost impossible to find. Likely you have a queen and she is not laying yet. I would not be sure there is no queen until the 22nd of July...

swarmswapper · July 06, 2016, 09:45:18 AM

Thanks guys, this is really frustrating not knowing as there are so many variables.

I did not see any mites on the them but not to say I did not miss them Jim.

Michael, the supercedure cells I left were capped and two had darkened tips which led me to think they were only a few days away from hatching out (that was on the 19th). If she hatched on or around the 22nd - 23rd then it will have been around 2 weeks ago now. I had planned on waiting until this weekend to go into the hive and look for eggs. Perhaps I should give it another week then? I am anxious to get in and try to sort out the problem i.e. mites? but am also concerned that I may go in too soon and disrupt the queen process.

I know it is very difficult to diagnose concerns on these posts - thanks for your council gents all is welcome.

Michael Bush · July 06, 2016, 03:35:25 PM

Three weeks would be the outside limit. Two weeks would be likely. A frame of eggs and open brood will both answer the question and prevent laying workers...

http://www.bushfarms.com/beespanacea.htm

Acebird · July 06, 2016, 08:12:35 PM

If the drone came from a DOA would it end up near the virgin queen's hive? I don't know why you pinched the queen either but the risk of raising a queen is she doesn't get back. I give my hives plenty of space when they are raising a queen. I don't want the hive chucked full of honey when the queen comes back from her mating flight. That may not work so well when I move south.