Frame of Unfertilized Eggs

sstowers3699 · August 18, 2016, 11:31:18 AM

I have a single frame in two 10 frame brood boxes that has any eggs on it. However, I noticed the eggs approximately 10 days ago and they have yet to develop in to larvae. There is not more than one egg per cell so I'm pretty sure I don't have laying workers.

Is there any reason why the queen would have laid eggs that are not growing?

little john · August 18, 2016, 12:24:55 PM

Whether the eggs are fertilised or not, makes no difference here. If they were fertilised, then you'd be looking at workers, and if not, drones. But for some reason those eggs have died.

There's something here I don't quite understand - in another post you wrote that the bottom box is full of pollen and nectar, and the top box has undrawn frames (you don't say how many). You also say the top box has one frame of (dead) eggs, but you don't say how many frames of brood there are - so from a distance it's very difficult to judge the strength of your colony.

You see, to fill a 10-frame box with nectar and pollen suggests a very strong colony, and yet that colony hasn't drawn out all the frames in the top box - which is where the queen is right now, and where the queen would want to lay. So - something isn't quite right here.

In the absence of other information, I'd be thinking either in terms of poisoning - pesticides or similar - which would explain why so many of your bees are disoriented and walking off into the sunset - or - could it be that two 10-frame boxes is simply too much space, and that the eggs have died from cold ? [may not apply, but you don't say where in the world you live. Btw, it would be useful to put this in your forum profile]

With regard to the frames in the top box - how many of those are drawn, and is there brood in any of them ?

LJ

sstowers3699 · August 18, 2016, 12:49:10 PM

There is no brood on any of the frames except for the eggs that have not developed in to anything. There are 5 frames in the top box that are not drawn out. I even put a layer of their own burr comb on the frames to incite drawing, but nothing happened.

The bees have stopped walking off, but I am still finding 1 or 2 on the ground unable to fly. I have come to terms that that may have been a pesticide issue even though I don't know of anyone around me who would have crops enough to poison numerous bees.

I live in Georgia, approximately 40 minutes north of Atlanta. It's been nothing but 90 degree weather here for months so cold is not an issue.

I have treated for varroa and have seen several on a sticky board, but not enough to make me think this is virus related. Who knows though, a few could transmit just as much a lot.

Do you think that maybe she was happily laying when she laid these eggs and then the hive got exposed to a pesticide causing this confusion? Will it right itself?

little john · August 18, 2016, 02:02:13 PM

Well, the eggs getting chilled was a long shot - that's me clutching at straws - but pretty obviously not the case here. But something has killed those eggs - so that only leaves some kind of poison.

You mentioned you've treated the bees for varroa - how long ago, and what did you use ? There may be a clue there - other than that, I'm completely stumped as I've never seen this before.

If those were my bees, then for now - assuming that the bee numbers are dwindling - I'd be inclined to put all that nectar and pollen in store (frames upright in a freezer if possible) just in case it's contaminated. Then reduce the hive to one box, remove the undrawn frames, and pad-out the remaining space - in other words, reduce the hive size to that of a nuc. (if you've got a nuc box, use that) Then feed 1:1 syrup made from cane sugar.

Hopefully foragers will be bringing in some pollen, which of course will be fresh - so at that point there will only be pure food coming into the hive. The colony may, or may not, recover - but at least you're giving them the best chance by removing one possible cause.

Other than that, I don't know what to suggest - this one is a puzzle.

LJ

divemaster1963 · August 18, 2016, 02:13:12 PM

put your location in your bio. it helps us figure things out. location of hives, temps, forgae . they all have possibilities.

john

sstowers3699 · August 18, 2016, 04:41:49 PM

I only have one hive and the bottom ten frames are almost completely full of pollen and sugar water. If I were to condense them into a nuc box, I only have the undrawn frames to replace the potentially contaminated pollen frames. Will they draw out comb if I continue to feed them the sugar water?

I treated with Apivar on Saturday. It was Monday of last week when they started exhibiting this strange behavior.

divemaster1963 · August 18, 2016, 07:00:58 PM

Do what little John said. Try to get those bad frames out. And reduce. We will start the fall flow soon. The rain is starting to get things blooming again. The the goldenrod by the end of month comes in.

Good luck and keep us posted.

I don't treat and and don't come across problems like this that I cause.

John

sstowers3699 · August 19, 2016, 10:12:20 AM

I don't use any pesticides around my house for this very reason. But this whole incident occurred before I treated for mites, so that's not the issue.

I will work on condensing them back to one box this weekend. If anything changes or I figure everything out, I'll let you know. Thanks for the advice!

sc-bee · August 19, 2016, 10:33:13 AM

Are you sure you are seeing eggs? Have broken down the side of a cell wall and exposed an egg? Are you pehaps seeing the bottom of the Y in a polished cell- reflection? Just asking?

sstowers3699 · August 19, 2016, 11:24:59 AM

Yes, I'm positive they are eggs. I've been opening the hive every 7 days since I got them in May to monitor health and am pretty aware of what the eggs look like now.

sc-bee · August 20, 2016, 12:36:07 PM

Quote from: sstowers3699 on August 19, 2016, 11:24:59 AM
Yes, I'm positive they are eggs. I've been opening the hive every 7 days since I got them in May to monitor health and am pretty aware of what the eggs look like now.

That is good.... some folks have hives for years and just can not see eggs

yes2matt · August 20, 2016, 06:15:19 PM

Is it this? https://www.zombeewatch.org/

GSF · August 23, 2016, 10:20:45 AM

pehaps seeing the bottom of the Y in a polished cell- reflection? That's what I was wondering.

I wonder if you have any toxic blooms around there? Keep us posted this is interesting.

Acebird · August 24, 2016, 09:36:03 AM

Quote from: sstowers3699 on August 18, 2016, 11:31:18 AM
Is there any reason why the queen would have laid eggs that are not growing?

Yes, the bees have not attended to them and they died. The bigger question is why they haven't removed them.

QuoteI've been opening the hive every 7 days since I got them in May

Some believe this is a good idea. To many times I have read post from people that do this will have serious troubles with their hives.
You have to determine if this is an active colony that has a mated queen. Are you seeing the end of a laying worker hive, unlikely? Is it the beginning of a laying worker hive? IDK. Is there any evidence of robbing?
I wish I could help with this mystery.

sc-bee · August 24, 2016, 09:08:33 PM

Quote from: Acebird on August 24, 2016, 09:36:03 AM
Quote from: sstowers3699 on August 18, 2016, 11:31:18 AM
Is there any reason why the queen would have laid eggs that are not growing?
Yes, the bees have not attended to them and they died. The bigger question is why they haven't removed them.

Intresting... I have never seen a dead egg in a cell... or at least one I thought or knew was dead. Looks like they would dry up or be removed like you said. Guess I will look harder