I8 inch frames

Blacksheep · August 20, 2016, 09:21:48 PM

Hi Guys: Well I have been busy building a deep box with 18inch frames!It will hold 14 frames which will be 18 inches deep.Walls are 1 1/2 thich and hive is solid and heavy which is what I read it should be since it is not ever moved you only pull the frames.It has the ability to be sectioned off in to a 5 frame first and later a 10 frame and after that is full you can go to 14 frames.
I still need to make the frames.The Hive is the one Tom Hutt uses!I will stock it with a swarm next spring hopefully!

divemaster1963 · August 20, 2016, 10:22:04 PM

What about supering? Or do you just pull outside frames of honey? Sounds it would be better to build long box lang.then you can section it off like wild hives do in floor joists. Most big hives will have one joist section brood then next joist section honey only. Had several that had over 200 lbs honey setup this way.

John

little john · August 21, 2016, 04:31:22 AM

Very interesting. I'd not heard of Tom Hutt before now - here's a link to his 18" hive: http://www.bosbees.com/gallery.html

From the pictures there, seems Tom is experiencing the same as myself (with 14" frames), that the bees only draw down to around 12" at first - presumably (hopefully !), they'll continue downwards after a period of consolidation.

It's gpod to see people thinking outside of the box - that's the only way progress (and the odd screw-up) is made.

Blacksheep - don't forget the photos !

LJ

divemaster1963 · August 21, 2016, 11:34:11 AM

Little John. Now that I'm awake . I had notice on feral hives that they do build down in stages just never really thought about it that much and with working stand frames.with floor cavities in apartments here in States they about 14- 16 inches deep . my only thing that I'm worried about is weight I can work with and the heat making wax flimsy. In apartments the cavities between floors often are very cool. Sometimes I think they even use a/c in floors.

John

little john · August 21, 2016, 04:39:19 PM

Hi John

It's interesting what you said about how the bees behave in floor joists - and now you've explained that they're 14-16" deep ... because ... this 'dedication' of combs into separate uses, is exactly what I've seen with 12" deep combs. That is: one comb completely brood, another one completely drone, another one completely pollen and so on ...

This 'dedication' isn't 100%, but can be very close. The first time I saw a brood comb, with brood from side-bar to side-bar, and from top to bottom, with only very small triangles of honey in the top corners - like some huge slab of capped brood - well, it left an indelible impression on me. I was so used to seeing the usual oval brood shape, with a crescent of pollen over, and so forth - seems like that may be an artifact due to the frame shape or size. Maybe.

Yes, frame weight is an important issue - it's not something that's had any impact on me personally ... yet. Certainly, from experience, a fully capped 14x12 honey frame is a serious lift. I guess as long as shallow or partial width supers are used, it could be manageable.

Don't think I'll ever be tempted by the 18" depth, but I take my hat off to Tom Hutt and Blacksheep for 'stretching the envelope'. It's only by doing this that we find out what is practicable, and what's a non-starter.

I see Tom Hutt is using pre-wired foundation - Blacksheep, do you plan on using the same method of support ?

'best
LJ

Blacksheep · August 21, 2016, 09:44:06 PM

Yes I will use wired foundation along with a center heavy wire(Political Poster Wire size in the center also the frames are heavier built.Once the hive is in place you never move it!Just lift the frame s and I figure a frame might weigh 20lbs.
I built my hive just like the photos of Tom's hive.
I will build a super that I can use in the extractors.I have squeezed some honey out of the combs but I don't like that at all>Very messey!!

divemaster1963 · August 21, 2016, 10:17:03 PM

Backsheep. Never thought about the legs on those signs. They are heavy duty and I think just the same size diameter as the predrilled holes in most frames. I think they differently would work and probly better for when extracting. I can get my hands on a ton of them from the sanitation Dept. They get them by the truck loads from when they place ads and elction signs in wrong places( to close to roads and blocking turning Lane visibility on coners).

John

Blacksheep · August 22, 2016, 12:05:17 PM

Those wires will support a lot and the bees will build across them I hope.Here is the situation!As you know in a 2 box deep setup it is 18inches, however all the space between the bottom of the top box and the top of the first box is a lot and the 18 inch deep frames provide a solid comb which keeps the bees warmer and I hope will allow them to have a bigger population without swarming>It is said that the bees will swarm less.
I recently was at a Bee keepers and he had a observation hive in his shop!It was like a china cabinet and had glass doors and the combs were built down several inches below the frames in the hive.He said he put the bees in it in the spring and they had a great bunch of combs and lots of bees!That will be my next project!

Blacksheep · August 22, 2016, 12:07:10 PM

I ment to add : I have done cut outs in walls and the combs were at least 3 to 4 foot long!

divemaster1963 · August 22, 2016, 01:35:18 PM

I know what you mean by long comb one of the last cutouts of this year before I got hurt had comb in ceiling that was over five feet and when they got to the Attic floor they built side ways and flat like wasps and hornet's . it was six levels of comb deep perfectly flat with little support risers hold up each section off each other. I have never seen that before ever.

John

The longest comb hive I have cutout had comb 8 foot long by 4 foot wide with no joists. Solid comb three deep. Had been there for 6 years.