Wood buying decision

[divemaster1963]

That's why I decided to finally brake down and buy my sawmill. Got tired of everything getting smaller but the price of things. If you have a house just  five years old if you have to replace a piece of wood you have to order a special cut just to have it fit.  Rober I would love to see photos of you woodshop. Violins are a artform. You must bee a master craftsman. I thought of making a hammer dolcimer to learn to play. Thought of making a Appalachian dolcimer. But I don't consider myself that good of a craftsman.

John

[Jim134]

I stand corrected ( showing my age ). that's true of most 1" (3/4" )  lumber these days. however the planing mill I get scrap from & buy 1x4,6,8,10,&12" lumber still carries material measuring 1/2" not 1/4".

This has been the standard for the last 20 years or so in USA.
http://www.ezwoodshop.com/lumber-dimensions.html


                  BEE HAPPY Jim 134 : smile:

[flyboy]

I like to buy rough lumber at a local mill. The shavings are useful for a variety of things.

[PhilK]

I wonder why I would use a product that has been ban for inside house use.
(Methyl Bromide)  To be use in my bee hives?
Hope you have a good day.

https://www.nrdc.org/experts/jennifer-sass/methyl-bromide-pesticide-long-banned-indoor-home-uses-suspected-severely


      BEE HAPPY Jim 134 :)

Did you read the link you posted?

It can be toxic to humans which is why it has been suggested not to be used indoors. Furthermor, the company mentioned in your article was storing and using it illegally.

Methyl bromide used properly as a pesticide has no residual action and dissipates quickly - any pallet that has not been treated within the last fortnight should be fine to use (for humans and bees alike)

[Jim134]

I wonder why I would use a product that has been ban for inside house use.
(Methyl Bromide)  To be use in my bee hives?
Hope you have a good day.

https://www.nrdc.org/experts/jennifer-sass/methyl-bromide-pesticide-long-banned-indoor-home-uses-suspected-severely


      BEE HAPPY Jim 134 :)

Did you read the link you posted?

It can be toxic to humans which is why it has been suggested not to be used indoors. Furthermor, the company mentioned in your article was storing and using it illegally.

Methyl bromide used properly as a pesticide has no residual action and dissipates quickly - any pallet that has not been treated within the last fortnight should be fine to use (for humans and bees alike)

This chemical Methyl Bromide is still illegal to use inside of houses in the USA. If I cannot use it inside my house why should I use it in bee hives? Whether I like it or not it is written right in the building codes of all the surrounding towns where I live. I'm talking a radius of about 60 miles that I know about and some include different states.
      I would strongly suggest you go to your local zoning board before using wood treated with Methyl Bromide before you use it on the inside of a house in the USA

            BEE HAPPY Jim 134 :)

[PhilK]

This chemical Methyl Bromide is still illegal to use inside of houses in the USA. If I cannot use it inside my house why should I use it in bee hives?

Jim I am not suggesting you use it in beehives. I am suggesting it's fine to use wood that has been treated with it in the past after an appropriate airing out period.
You are a human, and bees are bees - the rules that apply to home use of Methyl bromide do not apply to wood that has been treated in the past being used in a bee hive.

[Jim134]

This problem can be avoided so easy. By not using wood treated with Methyl Bromide. Can you give me one reason why I should expose Methyl Bromide  to the products I'm taking off the hive and either using personally or selling? Most likely it will be used in a human beings digestive system.
I see no good reason to expose human beings to any more chemicals than they already are.


           BEE HAPPY Jim 134

[PhilK]

What 'probem'?
The wood gets treated in quarantine facilities and then the gas dissapates rapidly. It doesn't go into the wood, and it definitely won't be going into the honey (unless you're gassing the active hive with it)- that is crazy. By the time you have the wood it does not have methyl bromide in it. You won't have any exposure, your bees won't and yuour honey won't, unless you're taking it directly after it's been fumigated.

[cpekarek]

http://technology.theownerbuildernetwork.co/2014/07/02/pallets-fact-and-fiction-or-how-to-tell-a-safe-pallet-from-a-toxic-one/

[Jim134]

http://technology.theownerbuildernetwork.co/2014/07/02/pallets-fact-and-fiction-or-how-to-tell-a-safe-pallet-from-a-toxic-one/

Just maybe some you might like to read in the last few paragraphs in pink about the warning to Australia and New Zealand. Who knows whether it's true or not.. it seems like pallets can get retreated With Methyl Bromide and not Mark upon arrival to these two countries
http://www.1001pallets.com/pallet-safety/

[omnimirage]

I believe what PhilK is stating, though, that even if it has been treated with methyl bromide, the chemical should dissipate by the time one goes to actually use the product.

[Jim134]

If I cannot use wood that has been treated by Methyl Bromide on the inside of my house . Why do I think it's safe to use on the inside of a beehive?


        BEE HAPPY Jim 134 

[PhilK]

If I cannot use wood that has been treated by Methyl Bromide on the inside of my house . Why do I think it's safe to use on the inside of a beehive?


        BEE HAPPY Jim 134 

Once more this is because it is very toxic to people, so instead of the government taking any risks that somebody die they just say you can't use it. The same reason why there is, say, a use by date on food but the food will likely be fine to eat after the use by date. It is to cover possible litigation. Methyl bromide dissipates harmlessly after a period of time - fact. After this time the wood has no methyl bromide on it and is safe - fact.

[Jim134]

If I cannot use wood that has been treated by Methyl Bromide on the inside of my house . Why do I think it's safe to use on the inside of a beehive?


        BEE HAPPY Jim 134 

Once more this is because it is very toxic to people, so instead of the government taking any risks that somebody die they just say you can't use it. The same reason why there is, say, a use by date on food but the food will likely be fine to eat after the use by date. It is to cover possible litigation. Methyl bromide dissipates harmlessly after a period of time - fact. After this time the wood has no methyl bromide on it and is safe - fact.

If this is such a fact I wonder why they will never let you use wood treated with Methyl Bromide. In an occupied house no matter how long it's been ?


       BEE HAPPY Jim 134 :smlie:

[PhilK]

If I cannot use wood that has been treated by Methyl Bromide on the inside of my house . Why do I think it's safe to use on the inside of a beehive?

I'm starting to get the feeling you don't read my replies.. I answered that question in the first two sentences of my previous post.
        BEE HAPPY Jim 134 

Once more this is because it is very toxic to people, so instead of the government taking any risks that somebody die they just say you can't use it. The same reason why there is, say, a use by date on food but the food will likely be fine to eat after the use by date. It is to cover possible litigation. Methyl bromide dissipates harmlessly after a period of time - fact. After this time the wood has no methyl bromide on it and is safe - fact.

If this is such a fact I wonder why they will never let you use wood treated with Methyl Bromide. In an occupied house no matter how long it's been ?


       BEE HAPPY Jim 134 :smlie:

[BeeMaster2]

Alright you 2, just agree to disagree and let this argument die. Please.
Jim

[Jamie]

Every commercially-produced beehive in australia has been treated with MB, on account of them being imported from either china or nz, or made from nz pine.

[Oldbeavo]

We are using Australian grown and milled radiata pine, untreated. 22x245.

[little john]

More on Methyl Bromide ...

When it comes to discussing issues related to Organic Chemistry - and Methyl Bromide of course is an organic chemical - I happen to be more qualified than Randy Oliver ... however, I'm mindful that I don't have the same credibility Randy has justifiably developed within beekeeping circles, thanks in part to his excellent website and the numerous in-depth articles published there - and so it was Randy Oliver I turned to for advice regarding how best to deal with this persistent nonsensical allegation of aged pallets which had previously been treated with Methyl Bromide still being considered hazardous to honey bees, many months after that treatment.

Although Randy shared my view that the prospect of any Methyl Bromide remaining within pallet timber a month or so after it's administration was zero, he suggested that an experiment be conducted to test for the off-gassing from any residual Methyl Bromide, together with a suitable control hive.

And so I duly set-up the experiment Randy had outlined, but using 'HT' (Heat Treated) pallet wood as a control, rather than an empty box. After seven days of intimate contact with 'MB' and 'HT' timbers, the two colonies under test were indistinguishable from each other, thus supporting our prediction that - in practice - there is no risk of off-gassing of any Methyl Bromide from treated pallets a month or two after it's initial application to them.

I received an email from Randy earlier this evening in which he writes:

Thanks XXXX,
As you likely guessed, I'm hardly surprised by your results.  Thanks for
taking the time to test--most people are too damn lazy to do so.

Thanks for the photos and experiment--I've saved them in case the
discussion ever comes up.

Best,
Randy

So there we have it - proof (if proof were ever really needed) that pallets treated 'once upon a time' with Methyl Bromide are - after testing - safe to use in the construction of bee hives.  Anyone who alleges otherwise will now need to provide concrete experimental evidence to support their claims. 

The creation of a scare story is not the same as providing factual information from which to make an educated choice.  The reason 'MB' is branded onto treated pallets is not as a warning to future users (which is how it appears to be perceived), but as confirmation that the wood has been treated and is thus insect-free at the time of manufacture and therefore safe for international transportation.

LJ

[divemaster1963]

Over  cautious governmental political correctness in my opinion. Multiple interests have their money at stake. If people used recycling there would be less new products purchased. I have my shop built of pallets. It's 16 x16.

IV built patio decks from pallet wood. It has the most beautiful graining I've ever seen. Some of the most beautiful wood is used for pallets just because it a short piece or had a slight bend in it.

John