Epipens up to 600 buckaroos

[flyboy]

There is an article in the Washington post about epipens being jacked up in price to 600 and stories of PPL paying 1500 for two. Considering that it has about 1 dollars worth of product in it??.

Since I cannot post the link here is one of the congresswoman who is doing something about it.

Rep. Grace Meng (D-N.Y.) http://www.washingtonexaminer.com/ceo-behind-epipen-hike-is-senators-daughter/article/2600075?custom_click=rss

[BeeMaster2]

A congressman wants to fix what they caused, you know how that is going to turn out. Just higher prices.

[flyboy]

The drug bijanus is a fairly crooked business IMHO.

[Dallasbeek]

A congressman wants to fix what they caused, you know how that is going to turn out. Just higher prices.

Agreed 200%.  The FDA blocks any company trying to market competition to the EpiPen so Mylan labs can make a killing.  The ACA (Obama Care) has influenced prices, too. 

If I could come upwith a product that some people absolutely HAD to have, that had to be replaced after one year and the government would protect me from competition, I'd jump at it.  Tell me you guys wouldn't.  Really?

[Kathyp]

yup...this is what happens when an alphabet agency controls product.  The failure here is lack of competition/capitalism. 

The solution of the government is to try to force some kind of price control.  never works.  The real solution is to get the government out of it.

[flyboy]

yup...this is what happens when an alphabet agency controls product.  The failure here is lack of competition/capitalism. 

The solution of the government is to try to force some kind of price control.  never works.  The real solution is to get the government out of it.

Good luck with that one. Especially since the corporations that are being policed own the Police agency.

[JackM]

Yes the female that is making and extra 17 million a year has assumed that folks can only administer epinephrine with a pen.

You can get epi in a vial and draw up the dose.  Not foolproof like the pen, but the exact same medicine.  Now, for kiddo's, obviously that is not an option.  But, it only takes 30 seconds to open the vial and draw up 3 ml and give the dose.  The only difference is the epi pen injects the med "automatically" upon insertion into the skin and it is already the proper dose.

So, the majority of folks can get by just fine with a vial of epi and a syringe and reduce the sales to the epipen company

[Kathyp]

Good luck with that one. Especially since the corporations that are being policed own the Police agency.

In this case, another part of the market seems to be taking care of it.  Thier stock has been tanking. 

So, the majority of folks can get by just fine with a vial of epi and a syringe and reduce the sales to the epipen company

Indeed, and did for many decades before the epipen

There have been other companies with generic or company brand ready to go for a long time.  The FDA has blocked them and there have been patent disputes.  Looks like the FDA is going to be forced into approving them.  BUT, the FDA should not be in the business of blocking meds to the consumer in the first place.  It's only job is to ensure a measure of safety, and there it has lost the balance between safety and getting stuff out to the public.  It shouldn't take billions of dollars and many years to bring a drug from paper to public.

[little john]

Stone me ....  somebody's getting ripped off.

Just checked UK prices for pre-filled syringes of adrenaline - one company is trying to charge $65 each, but two others are charging near-enough $10.  (prices based on 1 GB pound - 1.3 $US)

LJ

[Kathyp]

one company is trying to charge $65 each, but two others are charging near-enough $10.  (prices based on 1 GB pound - 1.3 $US)

Probably buying from one of the companies that has been blocked from selling here.

  One of the reasons we pay more is that you guys and the rest of the collective medicine types don't pay market for things.  Neither do you come close to paying for the billions that companies spend bringing things to FDA compliance.  Companies make it up on us!  Our government makes it so very expensive to get drugs to market here that we are always paying more.  it's for our own good, you know?

In this case, this is just stupid greed and the interference run for them by our own government agencies.  That's ok.  their stock is tanking and consumers are forcing the FDA to approve alternative meds.

[flyboy]

The reason that consumers pay obscene amounts is that the drug co's have bought the politicos and had a government agency installed that is pro drug co's. The reason research is so expensive is that for a lot of drugs it takes an enormous amount of studies so that they can finally get the few needed that show the results they need to show to get them certified.  On top of the research there is an enormous amount spent on conning Doctors into using their wares via the various kickback schemes. Basically the system is rotten.

As is quite well known in the business, the drug co's spend twice as much on marketting as they do on research.

This is why every year the amount of new drugs certified, equals the old ones removed from the marketplace for being dangerous and just plain killing or maiming too many folks.

The reason their stocks are plummetting is that the public has gotten wise to their shenanigens and are moving away in droves from the monopoly drug/surgery model. The horse is out of the barn. PPL cannot unlearn things. This is true even in European countries where it is paid for via taxes and "seems" to be free.

[Kathyp]

There is nothing inherently evil about pharmaceutical companies.  They are a business.  Thier first job is to make a profit.  The big companies make a good size profit, but they include lots of biotech, not just drugs.  Thier profit margin is lower than either Apple or Microsoft...as an example.  Two companies to which people happily shell out big bucks for things they don't need.

is there cronyism between some of the pharm companies and the government?  sure, and this case proves it.  Remember though, cronyism only exists because of government.  The more government regulation, interference, and goodies, the more incentive for business (of any kind) to try to find ways to get into bed with government.

[flyboy]

There is nothing inherently evil about pharmaceutical companies.  They are a business.  Thier first job is to make a profit.  The big companies make a good size profit, but they include lots of biotech, not just drugs.  Thier profit margin is lower than either Apple or Microsoft...as an example.  Two companies to which people happily shell out big bucks for things they don't need.

I can chose not to buy a computer, but if your child is on the edge of life, an epipen is hardly in the same category.

Here are some samples of the markup of drugs; http://www.rense.com/general54/preco.htm

Xanax 1 mg
Consumer price (100 tablets) : $136.79
Cost of general active ingredients: $0.024
Percent markup: 569,958%

Claritin 10 mg
Consumer Price (100 tablets): $215.17
Cost of general active ingredients: $0.71
Percent markup: 30,306%

Personally I don't waste my money on the garbage because it is like disconnecting the "Check Engine" light, rather than getting to the root and fixing the original problem. Sort of like spraying air freshener in a hive dying from foubrood.

BTW as an example the cost of Xanex has nothing to do with recouping costs, as they sell in the range of 44 million prescriptions annually and since it is popular as a non-precription addictive medication who really knows how much is sold. Cocaine was once a prescription drug and was Sigmund Freud's drug of choice for his clients. Coca Cola removed cocaine from it's product around the turn of the 20th century only due to popular pressure. They are now slowly going out of business also.

OK OK End of my rant?. Ooooo I feel better now. thanks?..
Maybe I should go our and sniff the roses er ah hives 

[CrazyTalk]

is there cronyism between some of the pharm companies and the government?  sure, and this case proves it.  Remember though, cronyism only exists because of government.  The more government regulation, interference, and goodies, the more incentive for business (of any kind) to try to find ways to get into bed with government.

How does this case prove it?

Mylan had one major competitor - that competitor pulled their product from the market because it wasn't working properly (it wasn't injecting a consistent dose). Mylan increased their prices by about 500%.

Demand is static, supply dropped drastically - prices went up.  That's basic capitalism.

The argument that this is a problem CAUSED by regulation is absurd. It's a perfect example of how unconstrained markets work best for whoever has the most leverage - not necessarily the consumer.

[flyboy]

CrazyTalk,
You only have to look at the swinging door policy getween the drug companies and the FDA. Someone is working at the drug co's in charge of a certain drug unveilling and then they somehow magically get a job with the FDA and are "gee what a surprise" in charge of fast tracking it's way through the "certification" process.

There are a bundle of current and historical studies, books, movies and websites outlining the game played by the large drug co's. It's not news and it certainly is not paranoia. These rascals also do their best both above and below board to prevent the introduction of new methods of healing and curing diseases. This is well known and documented.

This is only one example. If you were to talk to the epipen manufacturers that were effectively stopped, you would get a more accurate picture of why there is no competition.

Have a look at who is on the board of the FDA and their association to (employees of) the drug co's.

The Doctor's union is also up to these kind of shenanigans ; (There is a movie on it

http://www.nytimes.com/1987/08/29/us/us-judge-finds-medical-group-conspired-against-chiropractors.html
http://www.naturalnews.com/049680_chiropractic_alternative_medicine_AMA.html
http://www.yourmedicaldetective.com/public/237.cfm
http://articles.mercola.com/sites/articles/archive/2011/12/30/rethinking-medical-associations-best-interests.aspx

As for government agencies ensuring our health and well-being, and preventing low balling companies from hurting PPL that is a joke. Watch the movie "Vaxxed" to see your tax dollars in action.

Why can little John find the same stuff for $10.

This article on iatrogenic diseases (Doctor and systemic deaths, mostly drug related) in the US, gives a clear indication on how well the FDA is keeping the country healthy. It is the 3rd largest killer in the US. http://articles.mercola.com/sites/articles/archive/2000/07/30/doctors-death-part-one.aspx

Drugs do not get tested on PPL in the age groups of the end users. They use young males 21 to 25 to test the drugs, because males in that group are too proud to admit they feel side-effects and are just plain more robust and the studies are so short that the side effects never show up. Then the drugs are sold to children and seniors with disasterous results. Also amazingly, there is no testing required to check interactions of different drugs which my understanding is one of the main causes of the massive amounts of deaths. Another amazing fact is that Doctors and pharmacists who accidentally or intentionally sidestep the paltry systems designed to prevent known bad reactions (deaths for instance) from multiple drug interactions result in nothing but a slap on the wrist to the "professionals" who get 'oops' caught. Heck wouldn't want to miss out on a $ 10. dispensing fee.

If airliners had such a bad track record, no one would travel except by car. Going to an (allopathic) Doctor is like Russian Roulette.

Surgery had an error/death rate approaching 50% until the UN got some surgeons to sit down and iron the mess of it. One Doctor who was selected to head it up and studied surgery around the world. The US was ranked as one of the worst and certain third world countries the best and from the book the surgeon wrote, it seemed like the problem was mostly blown out of proportion ego trips. They weren't even using checklists, wouldn't listen to nurses or anyone for that matter. Totally amazing. Try acting like that in a modern airliner and see how long you last.

Whew another rant??. I'll be OK. Just have to take my Prozac LOL

[Michael Bush]

I saw a picture of an epipen once.  It didn't cost me anything... ;)

[Kathyp]

The argument that this is a problem CAUSED by regulation is absurd. It's a perfect example of how unconstrained markets work best for whoever has the most leverage - not necessarily the consumer.

you need only look at the companies that have tried to enter the market and who has blocked them.  The FDA and the patent lawyers...in spite of the fact that auto injectors are used for other drugs and by multiple companies.  The inaccurate dosing complaint was pretty lame.  The company accused made the required adjustments and was still kept from the market.

I don't have a problem with some regulation on drugs.  Safety in medicine should be a priority.  I do have a problem with an agency overstepping its mandate in not only approval, but in the process to get approval. 

Drugs do not get tested on PPL in the age groups of the end users. They use young males 21 to 25 to test the drugs, because males in that group are too proud to admit they feel side-effects and are just plain more robust and the studies are so short that the side effects never show up. Then the drugs are sold to children and seniors with disasterous results. Also amazingly, there is no testing required to check interactions of different drugs which my understanding is one of the main causes of the massive amounts of deaths. Another amazing fact is that Doctors and pharmacists who accidentally or intentionally sidestep the paltry systems designed to prevent known bad reactions (deaths for instance) from multiple drug interactions result in nothing but a slap on the wrist to the "professionals" who get 'oops' caught. Heck wouldn't want to miss out on a $ 10. dispensing fee.

Inaccurate.  you do not know the testing process.

[divemaster1963]

They announced today that they will be offering a generic epipen for three hundred dollars by the same manufacture.

????????

If they make the name brand epipen what makes it generic if they are using the same delivery system and same drug?

Guess it's their way of backpedaling with saying they screwed up!


John

[Dallasbeek]

Gee, you think?  That's pretty subtle of them isn't it?  Now they are only 250 times the old price, huh?

[Dallasbeek]

Still, I agree with Kathy (I think) that the purpose of business is to make money.  Mylan just got caught doing it in a heavy-handed way, but like somebody else said, it's still not at the same profit margin as Apple and Microsoft.  And then there are the Clintons, who get paid millions just to give 20-minute speeches to foreign groups who then get special attention from the Secretary of State.  It's just business, folks.  Nothing to see here.  Move along to something else.