Treating varroa

[Michael Bush]

OAV has been around at least a decade and a half in the US (though not approved).  It was around in Europe before that.  The pictures I've seen that purport that it burns the legs off of the mites are obviously two copies of the same picture of a mite with one photoshopped... I don't think anyone knows for sure how OAV works.  But you are correct.  Whatever it does to mites it does to bees it's just that bees, being larger, have less noticeable problems from it.  For sure it disrupts the microbes and it may do physical damage to them.  The OAD damages the bees' malpighian tubules and shortens the lives of the bees.

http://www.bushfarms.com/beesnotreatments.htm

[Jim134]

OAV has been around at least a decade and a half in the US (though not approved).  It was around in Europe before that.  The pictures I've seen that purport that it burns the legs off of the mites are obviously two copies of the same picture of a mite with one photoshopped... I don't think anyone knows for sure how OAV works.  But you are correct.  Whatever it does to mites it does to bees it's just that bees, being larger, have less noticeable problems from it.  For sure it disrupts the microbes and it may do physical damage to them.  The OAD damages the bees' malpighian tubules and shortens the lives of the bees.

http://www.bushfarms.com/beesnotreatments.htm

      What do these initials stand for?

      BEE HAPPY Jim :)

[Dallasbeek]

OAV has been around at least a decade and a half in the US (though not approved).  It was around in Europe before that.  The pictures I've seen that purport that it burns the legs off of the mites are obviously two copies of the same picture of a mite with one photoshopped... I don't think anyone knows for sure how OAV works.  But you are correct.  Whatever it does to mites it does to bees it's just that bees, being larger, have less noticeable problems from it.  For sure it disrupts the microbes and it may do physical damage to them.  The OAD damages the bees' malpighian tubules and shortens the lives of the bees.

http://www.bushfarms.com/beesnotreatments.htm

OXALIC ACID DRIBBLE?

      What do these initials stand for?

      BEE HAPPY Jim :)

[sc-bee]

Littlejohn-- if it is VOA should it be DOA... ouch..... OAD sure looks better anyway 

[Acebird]

If you reverse the letters at this point in time it would cause confusion and gain nothing on its meaning.

[Groundhawg]

OAV has been around at least a decade and a half in the US (though not approved).  It was around in Europe before that.  T I don't think anyone knows for sure how OAV works.  But you are correct.  Whatever it does to mites it does to bees it's just that bees, being larger, have less noticeable problems from it.  For sure it disrupts the microbes and it may do physical damage to them. 

http://www.bushfarms.com/beesnotreatments.htm

Well I do not know what make my radio in the car work but I know it does.  Don't know how the OAV treatment works at killing mites but it sure has done a great job for me on my hives with no ill effects that have been seen on my bees.

[texanbelchers]

Well I do not know what make my radio in the car work but I know it does.  Don't know how the OAV treatment works at killing mites but it sure has done a great job for me on my hives with no ill effects that have been seen on my bees.

The point is that "Someone" can explain exactly how the radio works.  As far as I can find "Nobody" knows exactly how and why OA works, just that it does.  Once the mode of operation is identified much (never all) of the speculation on bee damage and mite resistance will go away.

It seems the search now is to find the best way to create and deliver the OA vapors into the hive.  There are definite tradeoffs of cost, speed, safety, ease of use, etc. for the various devices.

[Michael Bush]

OAV=Oxalic Acid Vapor
OAD=Oxalic Acid Dribble

[Jim134]

 

OAV=Oxalic Acid Vapor
OAD=Oxalic Acid Dribble

Thank you Michael Bush

            BEE HAPPY Jim 134 

[Acebird]

Once the mode of operation is identified much (never all) of the speculation on bee damage and mite resistance will go away.

For years we thought that of antibiotics, ddt, how many other chemical solutions or fixes.  It is our children that will find out how stupid we were while we pat ourselves on the back now.

[Caribou]

I seem to remember a discussion about caging the queen for three weeks.  This allows all the brood to hatch and with no brood for the mites to lay their eggs on they take a heavy hit. Three weeks later the queen is released and things go back to normal with far fewer mites.  Far fewer bees also but no chemicals.

[CrazyTalk]

From what I have read MAQS & OA Dribble are hard on queens/brood and interrupts the hive.  OA V doesn't seem to slow them down and OA hasn't developed resistance from years of use in Europe

This is an interesting statement Tex.  The dribble which is what the Europeans have been using for years is hard on queens/brood and you use that statement to say "hasn't developed resistance"?  Are you speaking of the mites or the queens and brood?
If you are going to use a pesticide to kill a bug on a bug you will have collateral damage.

I think an insect or mite or human  builds up a resistance to a pesticide that's a chemical.  OA seems more analagous to a brick.  It's an acid, not a chemical.  I'm certain someone else will be able to more eloquently expand on this, but this is my initial thought.

Any method of control that doesn't have a 100% kill rate, physical or otherwise, is going to build resistance.

To use your brick analogy, if you're smashing mites with a brick, you're going to smash the ones that are the most visible to you, and move the slowest. The faster, less visible (maybe lighter colored) ones survive most often, so the population trends towards faster moving and lighter colored.

[KeyLargoBees]

Current though is Its not a "medicine" Crazytalk....its a physical treatment so there is no resistance... the current thought is that VOA works something like diatomaceous earth where the crystals tear up or burn the soft parts of the mites.....its not something that can have a resistance built up as you could with a pesticide or an antibiotic.

[rdy-b]

 APIVAR--is amitrz base for the active--section 18 allows this in most states
amitraz wont foul the comb--the methods of achieving this control have been
in use for around 30 years--- no matter what is brought to the tabel--it falls
short of the results of amitraz--it is hard to have a treatment to accommodate every
type of need --BROOD __ NO BROOD -HIGH TEMP -LOW TEMP )the list goes on-
I find it hard to be live this thread is stuck on oxcilicacid
amitraz has had its dark period with off label use --and there has been much debate
over the fact that amitraz in its pureform leaves no residue in the comb--this has been
suported by the fact that honey produceers cant test for amitraz--but they cn and do
test for by prouducts of the miteside that is used off label--agriculture use of tackit---   
  there is a comon pharse of beeing on a treadmill when it comes to treating bees--but i belive
that replaceing beeevery year is the worst tread mill --- just sayingg---RDY-B

[texanbelchers]

The OP asked about 2 options, Apivar was not one of them.

Please correct me if I'm wrong here.  All claim great results.  All have varying impact on the colony.  Costs seem to be about the same when you consider product, equipment and time.  Resistance is a consideration for all to some degree.

MAQS - strong colony / queen
7 days with supers on
Temperature specific

MAQS - weak colony /queen /nuc
21 days with supers on
Temperature specific

Apivar
42 days no supers

OA
3 treatments at 7 day intervals supers on immediately after each.

[Tom in Kingman AZ]

Of course, when Monsanto gets their RNAi technology working it will fix everything.

            "That which does not kill you will make you stronger ......... EXCEPT Monsanto. Monsanto WILL friggin' kill you !!!"

[texanbelchers]

So will a car, but you use one every day.  Life as we know it wouldn't be possible without chemical companies.  This forum is for beekeeping; please keep non-related issues to yourself.

I should clarify, I don't think they are perfect or that any product fixes everything.  However, they do a lot of good everyone appreciates and some of the political stands are based on opinion and not fact.

[rdy-b]

**The OP asked about 2 options, Apivar was not one of them.**

yes but that's they irony --is he informed about this option???--also its not just apivar--
its the active that the thread i posted points to -- that would be AMITRAZ--we treated hives today with
AMITRAZ-the invioment of no brood breaks is a multiplier for mites --we in this enviorment dont
play Russian rullette--take care-- RDY-B

[yes2matt]

I seem to remember a discussion about caging the queen for three weeks.  This allows all the brood to hatch and with no brood for the mites to lay their eggs on they take a heavy hit. Three weeks later the queen is released and things go back to normal with far fewer mites.  Far fewer bees also but no chemicals.

I think I would like to read thru this discussion, if you can find it before me would you link it? I imagine the best time would be toward the middle of Spring flow, so that the population is still at peak til the end of flow, and starts to dwindle after harvest?

[texanbelchers]

This is one:  http://www.beemaster.com/forum/index.php?topic=26890.0

Also, you can read up on OTS queen rearing.  In one of the discussions of the similar behavior after the new queen lays a round of brood.