Natural Sized Comb

[bwallace23350]

I am thinking about trying to do this next year. Anyone one got some good ideas on how to start?

[iddee]

Wire an empty frame horizontally. Place it TIGHTLY between two well drawn out frames during a flow. Do them one at a time, or you will get cross comb. A starter strip of some kind does help.

PS. The first few may be mostly drone, as foundation limits them in having as many drones as they would like in the spring.

[Acebird]

Wouldn't it make sense to put a drone comb frame or two in at the same time?

[iddee]

Just more expense. Why not just put more empties in, just not next to each other. They will only draw the drones they want to have.

[Acebird]

But they will mix the drones in frames you are trying to regress.  If you put drone frames in hopefully they will raise the drones in those frames and not build more drone cells in the frames you are trying to regress.

[bwallace23350]

Does natural sized comb work better. From things I have read it does appear to.

[iddee]

Natural comb is NOT small cell. It will vary from small cell to larger than drone cells, just made for honey. Then if they need one or the other, they will change it. Are you wanting natural or small cell? They are NOT the same.

[Acebird]

It will vary from small cell to larger than drone cells, just made for honey. Then if they need one or the other, they will change it.

If it was strictly honey comb there would be no need to change it.  You suggested they would put drones in it.  Once that is done it is harder for the bees to change it.

[bwallace23350]

I am wanting to go natural. Just let them build what they think they need to survive.

[little john]

I am thinking about trying to do this next year. Anyone one got some good ideas on how to start?

To get your combs drawn, take a bare frame and add a starter-strip of some kind at the top - either an inch or so of foundation, an inch or so of old comb, or popsicle sticks (which is what I use).

If you're running deeps, then to support the comb you may wish to run a couple or three strands of fishing line across the side bars (that's what I've been doing thus far) - or - glue in place a couple of vertical bamboo skewers (that's what I've recently started using). 

If you're running mediums, then you might want to try without supports - but if so, then treat the comb as if it was attached to a Top-Bar, until it's formed side adhesions, and has matured and hardened off a little.

To get the comb itself drawn-out nice and straight, 'chequer-board' each bare frame between existing drawn-out brood frames.

To avoid drone comb being drawn, do NOT place these frames in a normal full-sized hive which employs foundation, but rather place them either in queenright nucs (which guarantees worker cells will be drawn, as creating drones is not yet on the menu), or you could try a queenless hive or nuc.  I've had success with the latter, but using smallish queenright nucs is my favourite.

You will get small-cell combs eventually, but may have to go through this procedure a couple of times to get there, if you're starting with bees raised on regular foundation.  In general terms, they'll always build exactly what they need.

LJ

[BeeMaster2]

BW,
For starter strips, I place a wood strip in the top wax slot, tack it in and heat some wax and paint just the edge. I put 4 of them in with an old drawn comb in nuc boxes and add LGO. The swarms move in and will draw nice clean frames in a week. They really like to follow the fresh wax line.
Jim

[Acebird]

I am wanting to go natural. Just let them build what they think they need to survive.

They can do that with partial wax foundation.  Use a 3/4 sheet or a half sheet with open ends (center the sheet).

[little john]

I thought a photograph might be useful:

This comb is typical.  Drawn on popsicle sticks, lower part of the comb unattached, and with a hole in each top corner.  Very typical.
If you look carefully, there's a vertical dislocation line about 2/5 from the left - that's caused by the girls drawing the comb in two lobes and then joining them together.




Here's a Top-Bar with a Delon (Warre) wire frame tie-wrapped underneath (destined for the wax melter).  The wire-frame extends to about half the depth of the comb, so the girls have added the extra depth to the original comb, as well as adding comb at the sides, but as in the previous picture, there's no drone comb present - and needn't be if you choose the right colony to draw the comb out.




Both combs more-or-less 4.9mm (small cell). I'm sure that there's a tiny amount of variation there - but why not ?  Why should all bees be exactly the same size ?
LJ

[bwallace23350]

Thanks. Those pictures really helped a lot.

[tjc1]

Wired with monofilament, and a starter strip of milk carton tacked under the foundation retainer wood (I have also just tacked the retainer wood in in place on its edge for a starter). Also some in process.







They can get up to some funky stuff if you put bare frames next to each other...

[gww]

I make my own frames (medium) and just cut the top bar in a 45 degree angle to make a V shape before assembly for my comb guide.   The bees seem to mostly follow the guide though I am new.   I have recently started taking a ball of wax and just rubbed it on the edge of the "V" also before assembling the frame.  I haven't got to try the waxed ones in a hive yet.  The down side of my frames are that you can not later change your mind and slip foundation in them.  I have made a couple hundred of them and still make them that way and so guess I am committed to them.  One other way to get a frame guide.  I had pictures on my computer but got a virous and they won't open now so I can't post one.  Hope my explination is enough.
gww

[bwallace23350]

Thanks everyone. At the very least I probably will give this a try just because patterns they build looks interesting.

[CrazyTalk]

They can get up to some funky stuff if you put bare frames next to each other...

Yeah - they definitely can. I'm dealing with that in my medium hives.

I've got a pair of all-medium langstroth hives, and a long langstroth with deep frames. When I built the long hive, I bought a box of 10 rite-cell frames, and started the bees on those - when they finished those I interspersed foundationless frames - and they're all arrow-straight. The mediums have a lot of what you're showing.

I think next year I'm going to buy a box of medium rite-cell and use it to get them started on straight comb in new boxes - keep moving the crooked stuff up and then crush-and-strain harvest a lot of it. Checkerboard with the rite-cell frames.

[pjigar]

I use popsicle sticks dipped in wax and inserted in the top bar groove. Worked fine when checker boarding. Once I setup a whole medium box of empty frames and the bees started combs from bottom of the frame. Mr. Bush suggests that bees need a way to climb to top bar so next time I will add couple of drawn frames in the center and see how it works.


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[pjigar]

I built my frames so I could have done triangle edge but it seemed like lot of work so popsicle sticks for me!


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