Bee Removal Fee?

iddee · September 25, 2016, 11:25:29 PM

I've heard a contract is only as good as the lawyer backing it. Otherwise, it doesn't even make good toilet paper. Better to be without a contract if you don't have the better lawyer of the two in the courtroom.

Better yet, have no ins. and few assets, and no lawyer will go after you. It's not worth his time if you don't have a million and no ins. He can't spend an unpaid judgement.

Dallasbeek · September 26, 2016, 01:11:12 AM

Iddee, you are absolutely correct. I once had a gun dealer for a client who shot two armed robbers, one fatally and one with a bullet through the spine. The injured robber's family contacted a plaintiff's attorney who called me. When I informed him that my client's business establishment was also his home and that he was not insured because it was paid for free and clear and because no one could require it to be insured, it was protected from judgement as his homestead, nothing more was heard of the matter.

It pays to have a really good lawyer who'll come out at night to protect your interests, but it's better to have one with a client who has all his ducks in a row before the need for the lawyer comes up.

divemaster1963 · September 26, 2016, 01:27:36 AM

hay Dallas. how boards you on. you could make for a great retainer. had cousin's both where international board. ( all fifty states,Europe,and Asia and South America. both dead now.

john

Dallasbeek · September 26, 2016, 12:00:53 PM

I wish. Lots of money in being on boards, but I retired 26 years ago and want no part of any of that. After I retired, I became a Master Gardener and then added beekeeping to my "work" load and those things and travelling keep me going..

mtnb · September 26, 2016, 12:59:42 PM

Lol ok thanks for the discussion on contacts.

What about weather wise. It's going to be in the low 50's and dreary outside so they'll most likely be inside. Will they be more aggressive? The home owner also talked about a 2' crawl space filled with insulation I'd access them through which opens up towards the gable end. This has me baffled after thinking about it. From my experience, there are rafters up there and should be pretty open. I'm leaning towards doing a pre inpection like John mentioned to see what's really going on and how much space I'll have. I mean, I do need room to move and have room for my equipment...i don't THINK I'm claustrophobic...it just sounds tight. lol

I think that's a good idea about the extra $100 like iddee said.

Dallasbeek · September 26, 2016, 01:24:19 PM

MT Bee Girl, sorry aboit hijacking your string.

How old is this place, which brings the next question -- what kind of insulation? When inspecting, have your husband check that insulation. It could be bad stuff, particularly in an older structure. Remember, too, you'll be wearing a bee suit and two feet could get real tight and there could be things to get snagged on.

mtnb · September 26, 2016, 01:35:17 PM

lol that's ok. That's what my husband said too. Butte has a lot of old houses but this one is on the flats and those are a bit newer. It looks to be from about the 70's but that's a good point about the type of insulation.

iddee · September 26, 2016, 01:52:15 PM

I never do one without a prior inspection. Where is the plumbing, wiring, second and third walls stacked from old remodels, etc. Know what you are getting into before starting.

DON'T BE AFRAID TO WALK AWAY.

mtnb · September 29, 2016, 11:14:03 PM

Well it's a good thing I did a pre inspection cuz the bees weren't where he thought they are. lol I'm pretty sure they're in the soffit of the roof and and possibly even partly down the outside wall behind the siding and need to access them from outside. I took my stethoscope and listened for them and I'm pretty sure they're there. Although I'm not 100% certain. And of course I didn't think of knocking on the soffit until I was driving home after work. lol He is very hesitant to rip things apart. Would you guys please share some ways you locate the nest in a wall or soffit or ceiling without having infra red or thermal technology?

MimbresBees · September 29, 2016, 11:49:21 PM

Buy a $20 laser thermometer from amazon, https://www.amazon.com/dp/B01BV0YMH4?psc=1zap the walls till the temps rise. it should be part of your cutout tools. keep the beam as close to the wall as possible for accurate readings. it works.

BeeMaster2 · September 30, 2016, 05:46:08 AM

You can buy one of those cameras on a flexable tube. You can then remove a piece of trim, drill a 1/2" or 3/4" hole where the trim was and verify where they are before you start cutting. You can also just drill a hole and plug it back up with caulking.
I had one that when I inserted the probe through the outside wall, all I saw was insulation. I went inside and removed the crown molding drilled the hole and found that they were in the ceiling behind the insulation. I then went upstairs and did the removal through the floor.
Jim

mtnb · September 30, 2016, 10:03:43 AM

Quote from: MimbresBees on September 29, 2016, 11:49:21 PM
Buy a $20 laser thermometer from amazon, https://www.amazon.com/dp/B01BV0YMH4?psc=1zap the walls till the temps rise. it should be part of your cutout tools. keep the beam as close to the wall as possible for accurate readings. it works.

That's great! Thank you! I will order it today.

Jim, I do have one of those cameras and he drilled a hole but same here. All I saw was insulation. There is not much trim to remove on this place. I'll go back and try to knock I guess.

Added: ok, I ordered it so at least I'll have it for next time. My husband also said they work great but he doesn't have one.

mtnb · October 04, 2016, 12:35:50 PM

So just an update...our weather has definitely turned and will only be in the 40's or low 50's and it's snowing just a 1000' higher up. I told the homeowner that it's too late. I can't remove them in that weather without them being extremely pissy and being so cold, they'll have a very slim chance of long term survival. (Is that even true? lol I'm just thinking about having their nest open for hours and the stress of removal.) Had he called me a month ago I could have at least combined them with my own hives. Anyway, I'm still getting that laser thermometer and I told him I'd at least stop by and get a heat signature so he'd know exactly where they are. (He's just a few blocks from my work, so it's really no big deal.) The home owner is fine with that and also waiting until spring.

On another note, some of you have said not to be afraid to just walk away from a job. How do you tell someone you refuse to do a removal without feeling bad inside? lol I know of no one else in my area that does removals and only know of one other beekeeper with 5 hives that only will catch swarms. I understand it's not really my problem but what do you SAY? lol

iddee · October 04, 2016, 02:19:03 PM

""I understand it's not really my problem ""

You answered your own question. If a man dieing from starvation says he won't eat potatoes, he wants steak, let him die.

If the home owner makes you uncomfortable, get away. Your inner self is smarter than your outer self.

GSF · October 04, 2016, 02:30:40 PM

Mt Bee girl, You're right. Long term exposure to those temps would kill the brood. There's no telling how much honey would be lost in the removal. Plus the nest cavity would be reduced with holes all through it because of rubber banding. Sounds like a good call to me.

Rurification · October 04, 2016, 02:34:14 PM

Quote from: MT Bee Girl on October 04, 2016, 12:35:50 PM
... but what do you SAY?

I'd say that I've looked over things carefully and at this time I can't do the kind of job that I want to do. If I find someone else who can do the job, I'll be sure to let them know.

CrazyTalk · October 04, 2016, 03:09:44 PM

Quote from: GSF on October 04, 2016, 02:30:40 PM
Mt Bee girl, You're right. Long term exposure to those temps would kill the brood. There's no telling how much honey would be lost in the removal. Plus the nest cavity would be reduced with holes all through it because of rubber banding. Sounds like a good call to me.

What it comes down to is that a large part of you doing a removal job is getting back a package/nuc of bees - you charge a couple hundred bucks and a couple pounds of bees/comb/etc.

If you're doing it too late in the year, you're not getting bees as partial payment - so either the cash price should be higher, or the job just isn't worth it.

mtnb · October 04, 2016, 08:29:27 PM

Thank you guys! I REALLY appreciate how helpful everyone here is!

MimbresBees · October 04, 2016, 08:36:52 PM

Just be an honest business person, and be forward in command of the situation, straight up tell them it's not a job you wish to perform. Then suggest that they to place an ad on craigslist. If you are having feelings that make you uncomfortable, do it by email or phone, this way you don't have to confront a angry person. or as a last resort, don't answer the phone or their emails to you.
Easy enough. Don't fret over the small stuff. It won't hurt you in the long term.

mtnb · October 08, 2016, 10:53:45 PM

Great advice everyone. Thank you so much!

Mimbresbees, I LOVE that temerature sensor gun! Thank you for telling me about it! It is going to be a fun tool to have this winter. I can totally tell where they're clustering tonight. I was gauging everything around my house and yard today. I love it! :)