Africanized Bees

[Twisted T]

Just a newbie question. But how many of you are seeing an africanized influence on your colonies?

[BeeMaster2]

Not really seeing that much of the aggression but I think that their genes are causing CCD problems where the whole hive gets up and moves when there is no food coming in.
Jim

[Dallasbeek]

Not really seeing that much of the aggression but I think that their genes are causing CCD problems where the whole hive gets up and moves when there is no food coming in.
Jim

I don't really think that's CCD,  is it?  CCD occurs in places where AHBs don't exist, as I undstand it. 

[BeeMaster2]

Dallas,
Where is that?
Most of the beehives in America are on the move and wintered in the south. Right where the AHB live. Quite often we hear about AHB being reported up north. They usually find out there was a commercial beek that moved from down south and brought the genetics with them.
Jim

[Dallasbeek]

I guess I didn't make myself clear.  AHBs are more prevalent in the south, southwest and West coast areas.   I've heard of them being in the Las Vegas area, but if they occur in the north, it's like you say and they're spotty.  I don't know that they don't exist in colder climates, but it seems that the pure AHB doesn't do well where it's colder, probably because of where they prefer to situate their hives, like in irrigation boxes and such.  CCD occurs (maybe "did occur" would be more accurate, since I'm not sure that plague is continuing as bad as it was) just about everywhere, including Europe. 

Some Africanized genetics may be present up north,  like you say, because of migrant beekeepers, but maybe some Africanized genetics are not a real bad thing, so long as the beekeeper can cope with their orneriness.  I've heard they are good honey producers.  But they have a tendency to swarm, possibly to escape beetle and mite infestations.  That might be a good thing if you're looking to catch swarms, but instead of swarming, they may just be absconding. 

Maybe somebody with more experience dealing with AHBs than I have can weigh in on this (including you, Sawdust, of course)

[BeeMaster2]

Dallas,
The genetic traits that I am referring to is the Scallatta, African bees, live in a climate that is always warm but goes through seasonal wet and dry spells. During the start of the dry spell the bees abscond their hive and move to where there is food. They cannot survive a long dry spell so they have learned to migrate with the weather.
Most hives in the US have some AHB genetics. It doesn't help that most queens are raised in the south where the most AHB drones are.
Jim

[Dallasbeek]

Dallas,
The genetic traits that I am referring to is the Scallatta, African bees, live in a climate that is always warm but goes through seasonal wet and dry spells. During the start of the dry spell the bees abscond their hive and move to where there is food. They cannot survive a long dry spell so they have learned to migrate with the weather.
Most hives in the US have some AHB genetics. It doesn't help that most queens are raised in the south where the most AHB drones are.
Jim

Some believe that's why bees today are more aggressive than those 20 or 30 years ago.  Even relatively gentle ones.

[divemaster1963]

i have to differ from your statment about 20-30 years ago. the bees my uncle had. all 4000 hives were very agressive at defending the hive. not that they would chase you a 1/4 mile. but if you were to go beyond the suppers they would attack in force.  the bees i see from migritory keepers are so docile now that you can work them most of thetime in shorts and tees. what i like about feral hives is the better definciveness they have. to me this means tht they will defend the hive better from vero,hive beetles, and moths. . i dont treat my hive and dont have a vero problem. i have done many dusting counts and have never had a count above five, mostly zero. the most losses i have had season from season was due to long cold spells with prelonged hot spell then freeze again. that made them brake cluster and gett caught tofar from stores. i do loose afew to abosconding during those hotspots ( what i call them) also.

john

[Dallasbeek]

John, you've been tending to bees a long time and I'll take your word for what you said.  I wanted to get into beekeeping in the early 1960s, when you could buy everyhing from Monkey Wards and it was a joy from that minute on, from what I heard from some oldtimers, but I was moving around every couple of years and couldn't get into it.  I finally got my first hives 3 years ago and it's definitely not easy today.  I really respect the experience of some of you felows that have done this for years and years.  Thanks for your input.  I'll still stand by SOME of what I said in my earlier post about northern bees maybe being not as affected by AHB genetics.  These discussions with people like you and Jim help me and others get a better understanding of what is going on.

[GSF]

I finally got my first hives 3 years ago and it's definitely not easy today

Dallas, I don't think it's easy keeping anything alive today. When I was growing up in the 60's the only thing we worried about was rabies. Now you just about have to have a computer to keep up with the diseases. It's not just animals either, plants have to be tended as well.

[PhilK]

I finally got my first hives 3 years ago and it's definitely not easy today

Dallas, I don't think it's easy keeping anything alive today. When I was growing up in the 60's the only thing we worried about was rabies. Now you just about have to have a computer to keep up with the diseases. It's not just animals either, plants have to be tended as well.

To be fair I think a lot (not all) of this is just a greater awareness of diseases/higher incidences of reporting. Same as a lot of people these days say that crime and violence is higher than it ever was, but statistically we're living in the safest time period in history. There is a reporting bias at play.

[herbhome]

I finally got my first hives 3 years ago and it's definitely not easy today

Dallas, I don't think it's easy keeping anything alive today. When I was growing up in the 60's the only thing we worried about was rabies. Now you just about have to have a computer to keep up with the diseases. It's not just animals either, plants have to be tended as well.

I've raised hounds for 35 years. In those days, one vaccination for distemper and parvo and your pup was good for life. Now they say three rounds of vaccination and don't leave out corona virus. Also it is recommended to booster shot em every year.
Several years ago, a wicked strain of distemper wiped out coyotes, foxes and  coons. One of my dogs, that had all his shots up to date caught it and was dead in 24 hours. Its the way of things, as breeders get better so do the pests.

[Twisted T]

Thanks for the info! I was just curious as I was planning on trying to catch a swarm or two come spring. Being in the south I figured that any feral swarms around would have some AHB genes in the pool.

[herbhome]

it seems logical to me, though I reserve the right to be  dead wrong, that the africanized genes will get watered down as the the AHBs interbreed with more and more EHBs.

[Beeboy01]

I've a hive that shows some AHB traits like throwing 4 or 5 small swarms instead of 2 or 3 larger ones along with spiraling out of the hive when opened. They are a little more aggressive when the weather isn't hot and quite but I haven't treated that hive for mites in about five years. They also are good honey producers so I'll live with them despite getting stung now and then. They haven't shown full blown AHB traits like chasing me with half the hive across the back yard but I've found even Italians can get pretty mean on an off day. If that hive ever gets real bad I'll split it and re-queen it.
  It's been my experience that even a mellow non aggressive hive can get hot if the conditions are not right. From what I've heard the AHB genetics are finally getting diluted but will never go away, a lot of their traits are dominant.   
   It's amazing how around 50 AHB queens changed beekeeping in only 50 years.   

[paus]

I did a cutout last spring and put them in a double deep the hive was full of bees I checked them later and there was barely enough bees for one 10 frame deep and no fresh eggs only sparse capped brood.  There were three opened swarm cells.  I put a frame with a swarm cell from another colony in the hive and they are doing well now. My question; does swarming to this extent always indicate AHB influence? Could the queen have died or was killed in the move.                                                                                                                                                                                                          Let me take this time to thank all of the BEEKS that use this site, for all of the questions and answers especially for all of the things that me think of questions.  WE all have different opinions, I want sincerely thank all of the courteous and sincere BEEKs that reply. 

[paus]

I left out " for the things that MAKE me think of questions"  and "I want  TO  sincerely......." SORRY

[BeeMaster2]

Paus,
Swarming multiple times is something European bees have been doing for a long time. There are old training videos on utube that show the old skep hives swarming a primary swarm and then a week later, a secondary swarm.
You have no reason to apologize for asking questions. We love to answer them.
Jim

[Dallasbeek]

I think he was apologizing because he left out phrases.  Happens to all of us.  I'm learning to read before pressing "post" button, but I still frequently have to modify after sending...and hope nobody read the gibberish I posted.  I just carefully read what I typed, but if it comes out wrong, it's those gremlins in the internet.

[paus]

I did read but I read what I thought it said.  My thanks to YALL from east Texas   Paus