Hive depth vs frame depth

[TxKronik]

Why are deep frames deeper in proportion to deep box depth (frame 9-1/8 box 9-5/8) than mediums (frames 6-1/4 boxes 6-5/8)

With mediums when the frame slips into the notch(5/8 in in deep notch)  it leaves 3/8in bee space

In deeps the frame will be to long (5/8in deep notch)

Just my math

[Acebird]

Well it is not 5/8 it is 1/2 inch.  And then there is the variation of a 1/16 inch in box height.  It should be 9 9/16 but some make it 9 5/8.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Langstroth_hive
Good of you to point this out.  Even Walt claimed that bees do not want to cross the separation between frames if your brood boxes are mediums.  So to stated in Wikipedia.  I see no problem with it.  Because my bees span three medium boxes at their peek.  Maybe the increased space in the deep boxes made him believe it was so.

[TxKronik]

The plans I have show frame rest as 5/8 but are most frames lip only 1/2 deep?

[Acebird]

If you are buying your supplies from one vendor it won't matter except for the bottom of the first box and the top of the last box.  The biggest variations will occur when you intermix from different suppliers.  Now if you are making your own then just maintain 3/8 bee space but keep in mind that soft wood really shrinks and swells with moisture.  Try to mill your wood when it is near 12 % moisture.

[sc-bee]

Does it count when you in the yard and don't have a deep frame and throw a shallow in the space  Way too much over thinking for me....

[TxKronik]

My main concern is if I notch my boxes the depth that the plans from beesource suggest then the frames will stick below the bottom of the box 1/8 of an inch

[TxKronik]

[cao]

I've built my boxes using those dimensions and they work out just fine.  With the rabbet 5/8 deep leaves approx 1/8 space above the frame and approx 1/4 below the frame.  When the boxes are stacked, it leaves 3/8 for bee space.  There is a difference between manufactures of frames on whether there is 1/8 above or below the frame.  Bee space is typically 1/4 to 3/8 so it doesn't have to bee exact.  Remember the wood will expand and contract with moisture and you will end up with propolis buildup on frame rests, so don't expect all dimensions to stay exact for long.  Like most situations the bees will adapt. 

[TxKronik]

Ok cool

[Jim134]

Some manufacturers will put the bee space on the bottom.Some manufacturer put the bee space on the top other manufacturer put the bee space in the middle. Not all boxes created equal. There is only one place I know of  that makes 9 1/2"  deep boxes.

http://www.humbleabodesmaine.com/boxes-c-1/9-12-select-box-p-1.html


              BEE HAPPY Jim 134 

[Acebird]

It really doesn't matter to the bees they will work with what they get.  An engineer will design a piece of equipment with a specific bolt and the proper spacing and when it breaks in the field a farmer will hold it together with bailing wire.  Bees are like farmers and beekeepers are like engineers.  Nothing in a bees life is perfect.

[TxKronik]

It really doesn't matter to the bees they will work with what they get.  An engineer will design a piece of equipment with a specific bolt and the proper spacing and when it breaks in the field a farmer will hold it together with bailing wire.  Bees are like farmers and beekeepers are like engineers.  Nothing in a bees life is perfect.

Nice example been there as the farmer.

[texanbelchers]

All good comments.

I've read that the difference between the deep and medium allowances has to do with expansion/contraction and from weathering.  I think the assumption is that the deeps will be exposed more than the mediums, but every situation is different so that is definitely a generalization.

My main concern is if I notch my boxes the depth that the plans from beesource suggest then the frames will stick below the bottom of the box 1/8 of an inch

If you use 5/8" for the frame rest, it will not come out the bottom; the top bar is 7/16" to 1/2" at the point where it rests.  Take that off the 9 1/8" frame height for your calculations.

With bees there are few absolutes.  The frame and box variations are slight in most cases.  Bee genetics and the space they like aren't the same between colonies.  Some like to draw burr comb in whatever space they have; others don't even in oddball spaces.

I finally found a live link for a PDF; I hope it stay's active:  http://www.three-peaks.net/PDF/BeeSpace.pdf

[Acebird]

Referencing that article...

If you have equipment that doesn?t provide you with
the proper bee space there are three things that you can
do. 1) Raise or lower the frame rest. This may be accomplished
by adding a shim on the frame rest or fastening a
piece of metal across the end of the super so the frame is
held at the proper level. If the frame rest is too high, you
might use a router and cut it down to the proper level. 2)
Increase or reduce the height of the super. This is done
by adding a sliver of wood to the bottom of the super or
cutting the super down to the desired height. Before you
start cutting do some measuring, the super should be
equal to the height of the frame plus 3/8?. 3) You could
do nothing and carry a container to put the extra wax in
or use two hive tools, one tool to hold the super up while
you pry the frames loose with the other.

The only option that will correct a frame to height of box problem is option #2 because varying the frame dimension would be much harder.  The real issue is mixing frames from different vendors where they can go up and down on the frame rest.  That being said, I do it and don't worry about it.

[KD4MOJ]

It really doesn't matter to the bees they will work with what they get.  An engineer will design a piece of equipment with a specific bolt and the proper spacing and when it breaks in the field a farmer will hold it together with bailing wire.  Bees are like farmers and beekeepers are like engineers.  Nothing in a bees life is perfect.

This software needs a Like button! 

...DOUG
KD4MOJ