Distance required between splits?

[Captain776]

What is the ballpark minimum distance you can have the 2 hives after a split?

Thanks,

Bruce

[fatshark]

My splits are almost always vertical (http://theapiarist.org/vertical-splits-making-increase/) which the bees cope with well. You reorientate the boxes a week later to help bleed more flyers from the queen less box. This strengthens the queenright half, so helping that colony build up better, and weakens the queenless half so they're less likely to swarm.

So, pedantically, there's no distance horizontally between the two halves of this type of split. These splits need less equipment - it all happens under one roof and on one floor - you only need the extra kit once the colonies are both doing well.

[Oldbeavo]

We split into nucs and either add cells or queens or in spring let them form their own.
If you take 2 or3 frames of brood and bees that have been above the Qx overnite, shake in some field bees, add a clean frame and a frame of honey, all done in 10mins, then when we open the nuc we like to be at least 2km, 3+km is better from the old hive,
This helps the field bees stay.

[Barhopper]

We usually leave the split next to the parent hive. Shake lots of bees in to the split. We try to get lots of nurse bees so when the foragers return to the parent hive, the split still has a reasonable amount of bees.

[Acebird]

Depends on how you split.
Take one hive and split it twice.
http://i697.photobucket.com/albums/vv333/acebird1/Friday%2013%20Devide%202012/Thedevide4Friday-13b006.jpg

[cao]

Depends on how you split.

Exactly. 
If it is an equal split they can be sitting right beside each other.  If you are just pulling a few frames from a hive that is say 4 boxes tall, I would give them a little space.  In my yard the nucs that I have made are about 50-100 feet from there parent hives.   

[bwallace23350]

I would give them a decent amount of room unless you are going to make them about equal. If not you set the weaker hive up for robbing or so I would believe.

[Oldbeavo]

Barhopper
If the field bees return to the parent hive, who is gathering stores for the nuc, you have to have to wait for the nurse bees to mature for the hive to start building.
Also if you don't put in a caged queen then the new young queen needs something distinctive and preferably of her own to return to.
We use a large bushy plantation for nucs and just splatter them randomly next to bushes, tress objects for the new queen to orientate onto.

[Acebird]

If the field bees return to the parent hive, who is gathering stores for the nuc, you have to have to wait for the nurse bees to mature for the hive to start building.

What I have shown is a mature hive split by the box evenly.  Both sides have a lot of resources.  In less then four days you get quite a few foragers on the queenless side because the nurse bees have nothing to do, not even drawing wax.  As soon as the bees can fly they forage.  A split a week before our main flow brings in a lot of honey.  Initially more then the queen right hive even though it got most of the old foragers from the queenless split.  In about a month you get a new queen.  In about a month the main flow is over so the reduced population is a benefit.  The queen right side is at max population both in bees and mites so there is no honey gain during July and August it actually dwindles.  As far as I am concerned those that take spring honey are shooting craps.
When you make a two to four frame split you are giving that colony the least amount of resources to start with.  That will be a very slow start.  Depending on local flows you may have to cram them full of syrup.  IMO syrup or sugar water is not the same as honey.

Yes Cao, size matters.

[Barhopper]

I move the existing queen to the nuc with a frame of pollen, a frame of honey, and a minimum of 2 brood frames. Been doing this for a couple years now. I like it better than equal or walk away splits. I believe the parent hive makes more honey while waiting for a new queen to hatch. I also believe the stronger existing hives produce better queens.

[little john]

If the field bees return to the parent hive, who is gathering stores for the nuc, you have to have to wait for the nurse bees to mature for the hive to start building.

That's what I always thought.  And then I came across a copy of C.C.Miller's 'Thousand Answers'.  In that book - if memory serves, either page 276 or 278 - he describes a method he used to introduce a valuable queen: where failure could not be considered as an option.

He installed the queen in a bee-less environment, along with some capped brood combs which were just beginning to emerge.  As those emerging bees would never have encountered any other queen, introduction was thus 100% guaranteed.

Then afterwards - he noticed that some of these bees were bringing-in pollen, just 5 days after their emergence.  Extraordinary.
LJ

[Oldbeavo]

Barhopper
That is a good method of making nucs. It requires the finding of the queen which can slow the process down if you have a lot of hives to deal with in spring to reduce swarming.
Your method is good so long as the hive hasn't got into swarm mode, because if they have they may leave with the new queen when she goes for an orientation flight or mating flight.
We  tried this method last year  and had e good number of the main hives end up queenless, we had a terrible spring for bad squally weather.

[Acebird]

Then afterwards - he noticed that some of these bees were bringing-in pollen, just 5 days after their emergence.  Extraordinary.
LJ

Not really LJ.  Bees are amazing creatures.  They show what survival means to all living creatures.  Be adaptable and be humble.

[Barhopper]

We start early. First splits were in January this year. I did have to split the January splits again earlier this month. I use the corplast sign material for aiding in finding the queen. I take the top box off and place it on an empty deep with a sign board under it then place a sign board on top of it. Place the next box on that, repeat until I'm down to the bottom box. When only the bottom box remains I start looking for the queen, keeping the boxes separated with sign boards until I find her. That way she can't run between boxes. Only had one out of 30/35 that I had to shake through an excluder to find the queen. Works well for me. I let the Nucs build up then sell them. Big hives generally make really good queens. Has helped my honey production also.

[Captain776]

Thanks for all the replies.
I am not going to split the hive I have, instead I want to build a strong hive first.
The NUC was an 8 frame and it is only 3 weeks old, so they still have a lot of room to work, plus the frames didn't fully fill the box so I added a frame of wax foundation and a top feeder to fill it out.
When they get built out more, I will add a second Brood Box.