Some things I have on my mind... need some advice.

Started by spafmagic, March 20, 2019, 12:04:25 AM

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spafmagic

So... first thing:

This is my first year. I live in zone 7b, I started off late with a 6 frame nuc in the later half of May 2018, having transferred them to a 10 frame brood box. It was my only Hive, and now I have something of a mystery. Throughout the coldest  weather we've had, I placed a bee cozy on my hive. It still had my honey super on the entire time. It has four wooden frames, and four flow frames. The bees survived all the way through the winter up until a few weeks ago. The bout of warm weather we had at the beginning of February got my bees working, bringing in lots of pollen. The color looked like red maple pollen. I opened it up and inspected it during the warmest day and saw that there were about a small nuc's worth of bees skittering about. Mama bee was still alive, but I didn't see any eggs. I put some sugar water in an entrance feeder, but they weren't all too interested in it, so I let it be. The night before it was to get cold again, I put the bee cozy back on, and left them alone. Facing the front of the hive, they all seemed to only want to congregate on the right side of the brood box. I thought perhaps where the hive was facing in relation to the sun was why they stayed on that side of the hive, because they always came out of the hive and whipped around and flew toward the sun. While they were staying in the hive in the cold weather, I turned the hive around the other way, so that the sun would shine on the entrance side of the hive, once the good weather came back. A couple weeks later, when it was warm enough, I noticed nobody was flying around. So I opened up the hive, and saw that all the bees were dead. I had done nothing different than what I had been right up to that point, except for spinning The hive around so that the sun could hit the entrance. Upon looking through the hive, finding plenty of stores, I did find that most of the frames were heavy with uncapped nectar. There were only less than a dozen dead hive beetles, and the mite tray had no varroa on it. The inner cover, on the left side of the hive showed some dark lines where the spaces between frames were. I'm guessing, that it was mold and there was too much uncapped nectar in the frames, and they acted like a heatsink, and chilled them out.

I know a physical inspection would give you more of an idea, but based off of what I've described above, anyone have any thoughts?

Secondly:
I ordered a 3lb package from my local bee supply store. They should get here at the end of march. I'm thinking of doing a modified release method. The Brood box already has drawn come, and so, I'll put the queen on a new un-drawn frame between the drawn ones. And with an empty box on top of that, place the box on its side, put the cover on, and let them trickle down to the queen once the hole is uncovered from the package. Good idea?

-Related to this, I have a hybrid Flow Hive Super, as described above... disregarding the whole "sugar syrup mixing with honey while feeding" thing, as the flow frames can be drained out anyway... would it bee too much for a package of bees to handle, to have the super on to draw it out, since the brood box has 9 frames drawn out already? Or would it be advisable to wait a certain amount of time before putting it on?

Lastly, after the flow starts to slow down, I was thinking of putting the bees on sugar water and pollen feed, and adding a second brood box. Is that plausible?

Ben Framed

Look up ''EARLY Beekeeping Spring Management Very Crucial'' video YouTube. Woolie B's

spafmagic

Quote from: Ben Framed on March 20, 2019, 12:21:54 AM
Look up ''EARLY Beekeeping Spring Management Very Crucial'' video YouTube. Woolie B's

Thanks. That gave some insight as far as what could have killed them. Thoughts on the other topics?

drobbins

start your package out in one box
you don't want to give them too much space to begin with
sounds like you have comb to give them, that's excellent
I'm getting some packages March 30 from Beez Needz, is that where you're getting yours?

Dave

Acebird

Do not put the flow frames on until they have filled a box below with honey.  Do not spin the hive.  When starting a hive you may not be able to use the flow frames because the flow might be over by the time the hive gets strong enough.  Having drawn comb will make a difference.  Good luck on your second try.
note:  feeders can cause robbing, robbers can kill a queen.
Brian Cardinal
Just do it

spafmagic

#5
Quote from: drobbins on March 20, 2019, 05:25:57 PM
sounds like you have comb to give them, that's excellent
I'm getting some packages March 30 from Beez Needz, is that where you're getting yours?

Dave

Oh yes, I would say all but a couple frames are fully drawn. Just some pieces cut out that were warped on a couple frames, and one that needs to be drawn out a little more.
Not sure where they're coming from outside of being in Georgia. I ordered them from my local bee supply store here near Winston Salem N.C. I'll be getting them round about that time frame. End of this month, beginning of next.

Quote from: Acebird on March 20, 2019, 05:51:33 PM
Do not put the flow frames on until they have filled a box below with honey.  Do not spin the hive.  When starting a hive you may not be able to use the flow frames because the flow might be over by the time the hive gets strong enough.  Having drawn comb will make a difference.  Good luck on your second try.
note:  feeders can cause robbing, robbers can kill a queen.

They will have a head start on having honey in the hive. Several frames have a good amount of stores already, left behind from the last residents, along with uncapped nectar. I assume they'll either finish it off, or clean it out. I'll be getting them before the major flow starts in this area. I do believe my hive is the only one within miles of any others, so robbing will be low possibility. As it stands, every day it's warm enough out, I watch them for a time... I'll be monitoring for such activity. Thanks for the well wishes. :)

Example of one of the frames left behind:


Acebird

Those are great frames for a package.  Are there any honey frames above?  If not they are going to need a whole lot of nectar or syrup to make it happen.  I am not in favor of feeding but if your goal is a crop of honey they need something to get there before a major flow.

I am not there but the pics look like a mite load with that white frass.
Brian Cardinal
Just do it

Live Oak

Yep.  Definitely clear evidence of Varroa mite fecal material in the comb in the picture.  What varroa mite treatment if any did you give this hive last Fall? 

van from Arkansas

Live Oak, Ace are correct, those frames are loaded with Varroa mite poop. Most likely the mites are ultimately responsible for hive death, also know as COLONY COLLAPSE DISORDER or CCD.
Van
I have been around bees a long time, since birth.  I am a hobbyist so my answers often reflect this fact.  I concentrate on genetics, raise my own queens by wet graft, nicot, with natural or II breeding.  I do not sell queens, I will give queens  for free but no shipping.

spafmagic

#9
Quote from: Acebird on March 21, 2019, 08:17:41 AM
Are there any honey frames above?  If not they are going to need a whole lot of nectar or syrup to make it happen.  I am not in favor of feeding but if your goal is a crop of honey they need something to get there before a major flow.

I am not there but the pics look like a mite load with that white frass.

Quote from: van from Arkansas on March 21, 2019, 08:25:36 PM
Live Oak, Ace are correct, those frames are loaded with Varroa mite poop. Most likely the mites are ultimately responsible for hive death, also know as COLONY COLLAPSE DISORDER or CCD.
Van
Quote from: Live Oak on March 21, 2019, 11:01:57 AM
Yep.  Definitely clear evidence of Varroa mite fecal material in the comb in the picture.  What varroa mite treatment if any did you give this hive last Fall?

The "white frass" is actually the reflection of the sun on the nectar in the cells that are uncapped. My phone isn't the best with reflective surfaces. If there were actually that much visual white residue on the cells, I'd have either melted the frame down, or rinsed it out with a hose, and would definitely concur about mites being the cause. There are 4 frames with capped honey in the brood box to start with, but this frame is the one that is most full. The rest are half nectar bound. I used formic acid strips in the fall, and only counted less than 100 mites in the tray when the treatment was done.

There weren't any dead mites on the tray when I examined the hive after it died. Had to be a combo of the uncapped nectar chilling out and food/brood issue like the suggested video ''EARLY Beekeeping Spring Management Very Crucial'' talked about.

If you right click on the pic and "view image" you can see it in full resolution.

Ben Framed

Quote from: spafmagic on March 21, 2019, 10:57:54 PM
Quote from: Acebird on March 21, 2019, 08:17:41 AM
Are there any honey frames above?  If not they are going to need a whole lot of nectar or syrup to make it happen.  I am not in favor of feeding but if your goal is a crop of honey they need something to get there before a major flow.

I am not there but the pics look like a mite load with that white frass.

Quote from: van from Arkansas on March 21, 2019, 08:25:36 PM
Live Oak, Ace are correct, those frames are loaded with Varroa mite poop. Most likely the mites are ultimately responsible for hive death, also know as COLONY COLLAPSE DISORDER or CCD.
Van
Quote from: Live Oak on March 21, 2019, 11:01:57 AM
Yep.  Definitely clear evidence of Varroa mite fecal material in the comb in the picture.  What varroa mite treatment if any did you give this hive last Fall?

The "white frass" is actually the reflection of the sun on the nectar in the cells that are uncapped. My phone isn't the best with reflective surfaces. If there were actually that much visual white residue on the cells, I'd have either melted the frame down, or rinsed it out with a hose, and would definitely concur about mites being the cause. There are 4 frames with capped honey in the brood box to start with, but this frame is the one that is most full. The rest are half nectar bound. I used formic acid strips in the fall, and only counted less than 100 mites in the tray when the treatment was done.

If you right click on the pic and "view image" you can see it in full resolution.

Not trying to butt or dispute but what the folks  are talking about is not the reflection, but the actual white dots randomly scattered throughout the comb. Correct me folks if I am wrong. These guys that commented are some pretty savy beekeepers. Just my two cents worth. I wish you well with your beekeeping. May you have many years of success and joy from your bees.
Phillip

spafmagic

Quote from: Ben Framed on March 21, 2019, 11:21:53 PM
...are talking about is not the reflection, but the actual white dots randomly scattered throughout the comb.

The white dots ARE the reflection of the Sun glistening on the uncapped nectar. The camera's resolution isn't the greatest when it comes to refracting light in a liquid medium. It's like having multiple raindrops on a flat surface when the sun comes out. Each one reflects the light of the Sun at a different angle. I can assure you that having looked over every inch of that comb, there is no white residue.

Ben Framed

Quote from: spafmagic on March 22, 2019, 08:28:20 AM
Quote from: Ben Framed on March 21, 2019, 11:21:53 PM
...are talking about is not the reflection, but the actual white dots randomly scattered throughout the comb.

The white dots ARE the reflection of the Sun glistening on the uncapped nectar. The camera's resolution isn't the greatest when it comes to refracting light in a liquid medium. It's like having multiple raindrops on a flat surface when the sun comes out. Each one reflects the light of the Sun at a different angle. I can assure you that having looked over every inch of that comb, there is no white residue.

Good 😊