Hive Swarmed but Noticed Small Cluster next day With Queen

hrtull · June 01, 2019, 04:01:38 PM

Yesterday morning, after being gone for a few days, checked bees and they were clustered in branch close by. Went to gather up box to recover them but was too late. I had done a split with new queen a week before with good results. Balance of swarmed hive seems to be doing well also.
Today I noticed a fist size cluster of bees in another tree close to the large cluster that got away. I pulled limb close and brushed accross them and noticed a queen. I built a small package bee type box, cut the small limb and captured this queen with maybe a hundred bees. I feed some sugar water and observed. They are caring/feeding this queen. I have no idea what is going on with this and what to do with this queen. Any help would be appreciated, Thanks HRTULL

TheHoneyPump · June 01, 2019, 04:16:37 PM

How many hives do you have? (Not counting this queen and bees)
Ade the other hive(s) fine?

hrtull · June 01, 2019, 04:30:52 PM

I currently have 2 hives. Ten days ago I split the large hive,(hive 1) and added a new marked queen to hive 2. This split appeares to be succesfull. I will refer to this as hive 2. Hive 1 the large original hive swarmed yesterday and originally had a marked queen from last year. To answer how many hives I have I guees it would be correct to say 2 new/marginal hives. The small cluster I captured today has an unmarked queen. Thanks for your reply, HT

BeeMaster2 · June 01, 2019, 07:52:10 PM

I would put my ear to the original hive and see if I could hear queens piping. Some hives swarm over and over again. If they are planning on doing it again, you should be able to hear them piping. The queens are being kept in their cells by the bees and the bees keep the queen they release away from the queen cells.
Jim Altmiller

TheHoneyPump · June 01, 2019, 09:22:29 PM

The queen in question is probably a virgin from one of a number of multi cast swarms. Put the mini swarm queen in a cage with a short candy release. Take one frame of bees and brood from the big hive 1 along with whatever cluster she had. Put them all together in a 3 frame nuc at a remote part of the yard. Forget about her and Leave them alone for 2 weeks. Go check in 2 weeks to see how they are getting on. In there will be either of:
- not much, failing cluster of few bees. No eggs. No queen. Shake those out on the ground in front of the other hives.
- a humming biuzzing mini colony with laying queen. At that point you can 1) expand your apiary by move them into a bigger box and boost with more brood. Or 2) Sell or give as a nuc.

OR. If you do not need or want any more bees, any more hives, just pinch her now and be done with it.

Per Jim. There may still remain a problem in the big hive to be inspected and dealt with.

Donovan J · June 01, 2019, 10:02:52 PM

Swarms can have multiple queens. I recommend watching this video:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8Tk0PKoyyvQ

cao · June 01, 2019, 10:44:09 PM

Swarms with multiple queens is what I have been dealing with this year. I have caught several that have had three queens. This is what happens when you do a walkaway split and before they can raise a queen, they fill the extra empty box that was added. With no room left in the hive they decide to swarm with several virgins.

Ben Framed · June 02, 2019, 12:29:30 AM

Good video! When y'all have a hive that has multiracial queens, are they always virgins or one mated queen and the rest virgins, or other?
Thanks, Phillip

BeeMaster2 · June 02, 2019, 08:30:41 AM

The original queen goes out with the primary swarm. The other queens can all go out in one big swarm or the bees will keep them locked up and let them out one at a time at about one week intervals.
There is a video hard on this board somewhere that Schawee posted where he dumped a large swarm into a cardboard box and he found at least six queens in it.
Jim Altmiller

Ben Framed · June 02, 2019, 08:33:57 AM

Quote from: sawdstmakr on June 02, 2019, 08:30:41 AM
The original queen goes out with the primary swarm. The other queens can all go out in one big swarm or the bees will keep them locked up and let them out one at a time at about one week intervals.
There is a video hard on this board somewhere that Schawee posted where he dumped a large swarm into a cardboard box and he found at least six queens in it.
Jim Altmiller

I watched Schawees video on that one Jim. Cao has been finding multiple queens. Have you ever found more than one queen in a swarm?

hrtull · June 02, 2019, 08:50:25 AM

I was considering trying what THP has suggested but without the detail as how to do it. So I will do it according to his guidance. I will also do as Jim A suggested and listen for piping. I thought I would share the hive swarm video from Friday. I also discovered that this mini swarm was clustered at the same time as this large swarm. When i do the 3 frame nook should I just let it be, no feeding etc. I kept the JZBZ queen cage from previous split. Will marsh mellow work as a release candy plug and should I add a few helpers with her. Great video on the 8 queens. I will update my progress. Thanks for all your help, HT

https://drive.google.com/open?id=1LhQjHHEsPaxpgaH74AXZPIF0Jw247cA7

BeeMaster2 · June 02, 2019, 09:42:48 AM

Here is the thread that Schawee posted with the multiple queens video.
https://beemaster.com/forum/index.php?topic=36582.msg307613#msg307613If

Jim Altmiller

BeeMaster2 · June 02, 2019, 09:45:47 AM

Quote from: Ben Framed on June 02, 2019, 08:33:57 AM
Quote from: sawdstmakr on June 02, 2019, 08:30:41 AM
The original queen goes out with the primary swarm. The other queens can all go out in one big swarm or the bees will keep them locked up and let them out one at a time at about one week intervals.
There is a video hard on this board somewhere that Schawee posted where he dumped a large swarm into a cardboard box and he found at least six queens in it.
Jim Altmiller

I watched Schawees video on that one Jim. Cao has been finding multiple queens. Have you ever found more than one queen in a swarm?

No I haven?t but I usually put them in a box and leave them alone for at least a week so I don?t get to see it they have multiple queens.
Schawee found all of these queens because he put them in a box after catching 4 other swarms.
Jim Altmiller

cao · June 02, 2019, 11:46:30 AM

If you watch Schawees video, the swarm with the multiple queens didn't go into the box but preferred being spread out covering the entire box. That is what my swarms with multiple queens did. Until I got it down to one queen left, they didn't seem to want to cluster. So if you have a swarm that just doesn't want to go into your box, maybe you might want to look for the queen(s).

BeeMaster2 · June 02, 2019, 12:58:48 PM

Good point Cao. I will have to keep that in mind.
Jim Altmiller

TheHoneyPump · June 02, 2019, 01:54:59 PM

PM sent

hrtull · June 02, 2019, 06:52:49 PM

Built a 3 frame nuc this morning. Made a candy plug with powdered sugar and corn syrup. Dumped the small cluster with queen into a cardboard box, captured her into queen cage . Placed queen cage back into small capture box and about an hour later they were all back into the original capture box. Opened large hive found 2 good frames with capped brood ,honey and pollen. Placed queen cage between frames and sealed it up. I made nuc box with a screen bottom and screen vent on top cover. Entrance is closed for the night. Taking them 20 miles away to golf course where I work at 5 AM and wait for results. The hive was much more manageable from the swarm. There were several uncapped queen cells. I did not find another queen but did not spend much time trying to locate, I had my hands full. I spend my queen hunting time looking at the 2 nuc frames and am certain no queen was on them. Thanks for all your help. HT