Do Bees Draw Slower If Super Is Full?

[The15thMember]

My biggest colony is in 4 boxes right now.  The brood nest is taking up the bottom 2 mediums, and they have a full medium of honey as well.  Since they needed more room and the sourwood flow is about to start, I added a shallow on the top a little over a week ago.  They have only drawn out about a fist sized section of comb in the super as of now.  Are they drawing slower because they already have a full super of honey, or is it simply that the sourwood flow isn't on yet and there isn't a whole lot of nectar coming in?   

[BeeMaster2]

Member,
It is probably that the flow has not started. Give them time. At least they started. That is a good thing.
Jim Altmiller

[Ben Framed]

Yes I believe Jim is right, and that they have stated drawing, ,even though a small abound of comb in your top super, is going in the right direction. When the flow kicks in they will do what they need to do to store the added nectar.
Phillip

[The15thMember]

Thanks guys. I just wanted to be sure that the honey wasn?t inhibiting them with the sourwood coming on soon.

[Ben Framed]

Thanks guys. I just wanted to be sure that the honey wasn?t inhibiting them with the sourwood coming on soon.

I hope you get GALLONS ! 😁😁. I have read where some folks put the full box on the very top and add the empty beneath but I am not recommending as I do not have the experience to confidently endorse this practice. Perhaps our more experienced keepers will chime in? One of my concerns would be SHB but I do not know how that would play out.
Phillip   

[CoolBees]

Phillip - I placed a shallow in between 2 drawn mediums during the flow this year. The bees walked right thru the shallow for 2 months and continued to fill mediums above it. Finally - I came up with a solution: I removed the shallow,  then took a single shallow frame, placed it in a drawn medium box for a couple weeks, until the bees drew out that frame, then I moved that frame back to the shallow box, reinstalled the shallow, and they drew it out.

(Previous note: I have 2 shallows, an 8-frame and a 10-frame and have (previously) been unsuccessful in getting the bees to draw either - after several attempts).

All this makes sense to me - I have a really hard time getting the bees to draw an empty box, so I have always moved a drawn frame into a newly placed box. (Thus the driving need to have all equipment with the same frame size - I find I don't care about 5, 8, or 10 frame, ... it's different frame sizes (deep, med, shallow) that cause the bulk of the problems for me). But it took me a while to solve the shallow box problem - since I couldn't move a frame, of a larger frame size, into that box.

[The15thMember]

I hope you get GALLONS ! 😁😁.

ME TOO!!   

I have read where some folks put the full box on the very top and add the empty beneath but I am not recommending as I do not have the experience to confidently endorse this practice. Perhaps our more experienced keepers will chime in? One of my concerns would be SHB but I do not know how that would play out.
Phillip   

I've heard of that technique too.  I was just going to keep it simple for my first honey-producing year and stack on top.  The beetles wouldn't be much of an issue in this case because this whole super is foundationless blanks.  I don't have any way to get drawn shallows, so I'm just checking the box frequently, and "cutting and pasting" the comb with rubber bands to get decently drawn frames.  I got good at that last year, since I didn't have any drawn comb to start my packages either.   

Phillip - I placed a shallow in between 2 drawn mediums during the flow this year. The bees walked right thru the shallow for 2 months and continued to fill mediums above it. Finally - I came up with a solution: I removed the shallow,  then took a single shallow frame, placed it in a drawn medium box for a couple weeks, until the bees drew out that frame, then I moved that frame back to the shallow box, reinstalled the shallow, and they drew it out.

(Previous note: I have 2 shallows, an 8-frame and a 10-frame and have (previously) been unsuccessful in getting the bees to draw either - after several attempts).

All this makes sense to me - I have a really hard time getting the bees to draw an empty box, so I have always moved a drawn frame into a newly placed box. (Thus the driving need to have all equipment with the same frame size - I find I don't care about 5, 8, or 10 frame, ... it's different frame sizes (deep, med, shallow) that cause the bulk of the problems for me). But it took me a while to solve the shallow box problem - since I couldn't move a frame, of a larger frame size, into that box.

Interesting experience, Alan.  I hear of people having trouble like that, getting the bees to move into a new box, and so far I just haven't had any issues with that.  As long as I didn't add the box too early, my girls move up right away.  I was originally planning on having all 8 frame mediums, but the full mediums of honey are too heavy for me to lift, so I'm trying to do a reduction of sizing on the classic "deeps for brood, mediums for honey" thing; I'm using mediums for brood and shallows for honey, because I'm weak.        

[CoolBees]

No worries Member - ya do whatcha gotta do. I'm a big guy, and I'm too lazy to lift Deeps of honey. 

[Ben Framed]

Good reasoning Alan. What I have done this year to help kick things in, i checkerboarded some of my boxes which had a very good effect and they filled in the gaps almost immediately, drawing out the new frames. But, there was a full flow going on and this was probably not necessary anyway. 

[Barhopper]

I almost always under super. They seem to draw it out better for me but the last couple of years I?ve been able to give them drawn comb. Try it on one and see what happens.

[Ben Framed]

Quoting The15thIMember
??using mediums for brood and shallows for honey, because I'm weak.??

I would like to tell you member, and any others that may not know. There is a new piece of equipment, though a little pricey, that should cure most weakness problems in handling heavy deep boxes of honey. I realize that there may be many elderly folks here at beemaster that may dread the day that they can no longer handle the deep equipment. I learned of this from Ian Steppler which lives in Canada. This tool will lift the boxes for you and allows you to move them at will in the same convenience. I posted the video here some time ago. In my opinion, if I was elderly, sick, weak, or any other thing that would keep me from handling my deeps, I would seriously look into this more closely.  Actually, If I acquire a certain amount of hives, I will be looking into this equipment before I am elderly. Who wants to break their back lifting heavy boxes all day?  If anyone is interested I will see if I can find the video or the post.
Phillip

[TheHoneyPump]

The thing is, the bees will not draw out a super (or any comb) and put nectar/honey unless they have excess that needs a place to go.  If the super is not used, it is because the bees do not need it yet.  The bees will do what they want to do and put it where they want it. Which is nearest the brood nest. It is when there is not enough room where they want to put it that they push it up into the super storage.

As for bottom supering.  This is my preference when my back and time permits.  Bottom supering puts the fresh space closest to the bees.  This reduces walking travel over the already filled and capped combs.  Keeping the combs cleaner.  The bees seem to prefer it too.  When there is a flow on and they need space to put it, they fill the bottomed super quicker.  It seems more natural for them?  As their instinct is to go to the top and as it is filled they move down. Perhaps, bottom supering gives them that more natural feeling of top down filling.

Pros: 
- keeps the combs cleaner, less dirty bee feet traffic over the wax.  Cappings stay white.
- is accepted and fills quicker, when there is flow condition of excess. If not much flow it does not matter.
- the ripest capped honey is in the top.  If want to harvest some honey but not want the whole harvest just yet. It is nice to be able to do moisture tests lifting just the lid.  It is also nice to be able to to a partial pull of honey by taking just the top box which will be fullest. Not having to take the hive apart.


Cons:
- lifting the stack.

More work up front. Cleaner wax and honey, as well as more convenient on the back end.

[The15thMember]

The thing is, the bees will not draw out a super and put nectar/honey unless they have excess that needs a place to go.  If the super is not used, it is because the bees do not need it yet.  The bees will do what they want to do and put it where they want it. Which is nearest the brood nest. It is when there is not enough room where they want to put it that they push it up into the super storage.

As for bottom supering.  This is my preference when my back and time permits.  Bottom supering puts the fresh space closest to the bees.  This reduces walking travel over the already filled and capped combs.  Keeping the combs cleaner.  The bees seem to prefer it too.  When there is a flow on and they need space to put it, they fill the bottomed super quicker.  It seems more natural for them?  As their instinct is to go to the top and as it is filled they move down.  Thus, bottom supering gives them that natural filling from the top down feeling.

Pros: 
- keeps the combs cleaner, less dirty bee feet traffic over the wax.  Cappings stay white.
- is accepted and fills quicker, when there is flow condition of excess. If not much flow it does not matter.

Cons:
- lifting the stack.

Great info as always, HP. I didn?t think about how building down would be more natural for them with honeycomb.