Some Updates and Questions.

Donovan J · July 19, 2019, 10:07:06 PM

So, Hive 3 is a swarm that i captured from Hive 1. I inspected it today and there were no eggs or no visible queen. I did a little oopsie when some comb fell off of one of the bars. The other hives are now enjoying this.

Hive 2 is still trucking along and is starting to move into the second box.

The population seems low in Hive 1. I think it is because the frame I put it with capped brood on it has now hatched out and the last day an egg was laid in there was June 19th. So should I shake in bees or add a frame of brood? Should I take the super off the top and reduce the hive down to two boxes or maybe even one? Should I add a queen into Hive 3?

Ben Framed · July 20, 2019, 12:04:13 AM

Quote from: Xerox on July 19, 2019, 10:07:06 PM
So, Hive 3 is a swarm that i captured from Hive 1. I inspected it today and there were no eggs or no visible queen. I did a little oopsie when some comb fell off of one of the bars. The other hives are now enjoying this.

Hive 2 is still trucking along and is starting to move into the second box.

The population seems low in Hive 1. I think it is because the frame I put it with capped brood on it has now hatched out and the last day an egg was laid in there was June 19th. So should I shake in bees or add a frame of brood? Should I take the super off the top and reduce the hive down to two boxes or maybe even one? Should I add a queen into Hive 3?

[Hive 3 is a swarm that i captured from Hive 1 population seems low in Hive 1. I think it is because the frame I put it with capped brood on it has now hatched out and the last day an egg was laid in there was June 19th.]

When did this hive swarm? When the hive, which is now hive 3 swarmed from hive 1, did you check hive 1 for queen cells?
Did you at any time since the swarm see or have a mated queen or eggs in hive 1? Are you in a dearth in your area? What size boxes is this hive 1? 5 frame nucs, 8 or 10 fame?

[The population seems low in Hive 1. I think it is because the frame I put it with capped brood on it has now hatched out.]

Where did this frame of capped brood come from? I am guessing hive 2? When did you place this frame of capped brood into hive 1? Did not hive 1 already have capped brood when it swarmed? Just curious as why you needed to add a frame of capped brood after the swarm.

[and the last day an egg was laid in there June 19th.]

Again, Is June 19 the day they swarmed? From what I understand. We should not open a box for at least 30 days after placing a queen cell in a split. Bare with me. even thought you did not split this hive, they naturally split themselves by swarming. Thus the reason I ask if you noticed a queen cell or cells in hive 1 right after the swarm. I have been told the proper way is waiting thirty days when making a split with queen cells. That being 30 days is the minimum of time in checking for a new laying queen from a split. Which today will be your 30 day time period, if June 19 is when they swarmed.

[Should I take the super off the top and reduce the hive down to two boxes]

I am assuming you have 2 brood boxes, again knowing the size of you hive will help. Irregardless the size at this date, I would not monkey with it to much being it has only been 30 days since the swarm. This may be a critical adjustment time. Again, if 30 days is correct? Your new queen could start laying any day. As you know, new queens can be hard to spot. Patience is the key.

[Should I add a queen into Hive 3?]

Hive 3 should already have had a queen with it when it swarmed. Do you suspect it to be queen less also?

Many questions I know. I am trying to form a mental picture of your situation.
Phillip

Donovan J · July 20, 2019, 12:18:56 AM

Quote from: Ben Framed on July 20, 2019, 12:04:13 AM
Quote from: Xerox on July 19, 2019, 10:07:06 PM
So, Hive 3 is a swarm that i captured from Hive 1. I inspected it today and there were no eggs or no visible queen. I did a little oopsie when some comb fell off of one of the bars. The other hives are now enjoying this.

Hive 2 is still trucking along and is starting to move into the second box.

The population seems low in Hive 1. I think it is because the frame I put it with capped brood on it has now hatched out and the last day an egg was laid in there was June 19th. So should I shake in bees or add a frame of brood? Should I take the super off the top and reduce the hive down to two boxes or maybe even one? Should I add a queen into Hive 3?
The population seems low in Hive 1.

[Hive 3 is a swarm that i captured from Hive 1 population seems low in Hive 1. I think it is because the frame I put it with capped brood on it has now hatched out and the last day an egg was laid in there was June 19th.]

When did this hive swarm? When the hive, which is now hive 3 swarmed from hive 1, did you check hive 1 for queen cells?
Did you at any time since the swarm see or have a mated queen or eggs in hive 1? Are you in a dearth in your area? What size boxes is this hive 1? 5 frame nucs, 8 or 10 fame?

[The population seems low in Hive 1. I think it is because the frame I put it with capped brood on it has now hatched out.]

Where did this frame of capped brood come from? I am guessing hive 2? When did you place this frame of capped brood into hive 1? Did not hive 1 already have capped brood when it swarmed? Just curious as why you needed to add a frame of capped brood after the swarm.

[and the last day an egg was laid in there June 19th.]

Again, Is June 19 the day they swarmed? From what I understand. We should not open a box for at least 30 days after placing a queen cell in a split. Bare with me. even thought you did not split this hive, they naturally split themselves by swarming. Thus the reason I ask if you noticed a queen cell or cells in hive 1 right after the swarm. I have been told the proper way is waiting thirty days when making a split with queen cells. That being 30 days is the minimum of time in checking for a new laying queen from a split. Which today will be your 30 day time period, if June 19 is when they swarmed.

[Should I take the super off the top and reduce the hive down to two boxes]

I am assuming you have 2 brood boxes, again knowing the size of you hive will help. Irregardless the size at this date, I would not monkey with it to much being it has only been 30 days since the swarm. This may be a critical adjustment time. Again, if 30 days is correct? Your new queen could start laying any day. As you know, new queens can be hard to spot. Patience is the key.

[Should I add a queen into Hive 3?]

Hive 3 should already have had a queen with it when it swarmed. Do you suspect it to be queen less also?

Many questions I know. I am trying to form a mental picture of your situation.
Phillip

The hive swarmed July 6th. Yes i checked for queen cells and there were a few and I destroyed them and left the virgin queen that was in there. There is currently a laying mated queen in Hive 1. I would say we are in a minor flow. Not full on dearth but a moderate supply of nectar coming in. They are 10 frame boxes. It came from Hive 2 yes. I added it July 7th. From what I remember there was very little brood when it swarmed. June 19th is the day I split the hive to prevent a swarm but obviously it didn't work. I put the original queen into the split and left the cells in Hive 1. Yes she is laying and well. This is what confused me. I saw at least two queens walk into the hive when I dumped them. But today when I looked at the frames I saw no eggs or queen. I did not do a detailed inspection because the comb is so delicate and you can tell by my little oopsie.

Ben Framed · July 20, 2019, 12:48:21 AM

''The hive swarmed July 6th. Yes i checked for queen cells and there were a few and I destroyed them and left the virgin queen that was in there. There is currently a laying mated queen in Hive 1. I would say we are in a minor flow. Not full on dearth but a moderate supply of nectar coming in. They are 10 frame boxes. It came from Hive 2 yes. I added it July 7th. From what I remember there was very little brood when it swarmed. June 19th is the day I split the hive to prevent a swarm but obviously it didn't work. I put the original queen into the split and left the cells in Hive 1. Yes she is laying and well. This is what confused me. I saw at least two queens walk into the hive when I dumped them. But today when I looked at the frames I saw no eggs or queen. I did not do a detailed inspection because the comb is so delicate and you can tell by my little oopsie.''

Xerox please forgive me as I am a little confused.
Hive 1 does have a mated laying queen but low on bees? In that case, more space than the bees can patrol can lead to danger form SHB. In this unique case, I would down size as needed in order to help this hive. A smaller strong hive is better than a larger weak hive in SHB territory.
Now if SHB are not a problem for you in your area, you should be good in hive 1. If hive 2 is plenty strong enough, then sure give hive 1 a frame of capped brood from hive 2

Hive 3, the new hive form the swarm, should have the original queen which left with the swarm. This new hive should be ok, that is if the queen was not damaged or lost in the oopsie.

I hope this will help you. If not there are more experienced keepers here who most likely chime in.
Phillip

Donovan J · July 20, 2019, 01:03:52 AM

Quote from: Ben Framed on July 20, 2019, 12:48:21 AM
''The hive swarmed July 6th. Yes i checked for queen cells and there were a few and I destroyed them and left the virgin queen that was in there. There is currently a laying mated queen in Hive 1. I would say we are in a minor flow. Not full on dearth but a moderate supply of nectar coming in. They are 10 frame boxes. It came from Hive 2 yes. I added it July 7th. From what I remember there was very little brood when it swarmed. June 19th is the day I split the hive to prevent a swarm but obviously it didn't work. I put the original queen into the split and left the cells in Hive 1. Yes she is laying and well. This is what confused me. I saw at least two queens walk into the hive when I dumped them. But today when I looked at the frames I saw no eggs or queen. I did not do a detailed inspection because the comb is so delicate and you can tell by my little oopsie.''

Xerox please forgive me as I am a little confused.
Hive 1 does have a mated laying queen but low on bees? In that case, more space than the bees can patrol can lead to danger form SHB. In this unique case, I would down size as needed in order to help this hive. A smaller strong hive is better than a larger weak hive in SHB territory.
Now if SHB are not a problem for you in your area, you should be good in hive 1. If hive 2 is plenty strong enough, then sure give hive 1 a frame of capped brood from hive 2

Hive 3, the new hive form the swarm, should have the original queen which left with the swarm. This new hive should be ok, that is if the queen was not damaged or lost in the oopsie.

I hope this will help you. If not there are more experienced keepers here who most likely chime in.
Phillip

Thank you for your help. No we don't have SHB so I'll leave the boxes on Hive 1. Ill add a frame of brood from Hive 2 to give it a little boost until brood starts hatching. I will wait another week for Hive 3 and if nothing shows I will add a queen.

Ben Framed · July 20, 2019, 01:25:16 AM

Quote from: Xerox on July 20, 2019, 01:03:52 AM
Quote from: Ben Framed on July 20, 2019, 12:48:21 AM
''The hive swarmed July 6th. Yes i checked for queen cells and there were a few and I destroyed them and left the virgin queen that was in there. There is currently a laying mated queen in Hive 1. I would say we are in a minor flow. Not full on dearth but a moderate supply of nectar coming in. They are 10 frame boxes. It came from Hive 2 yes. I added it July 7th. From what I remember there was very little brood when it swarmed. June 19th is the day I split the hive to prevent a swarm but obviously it didn't work. I put the original queen into the split and left the cells in Hive 1. Yes she is laying and well. This is what confused me. I saw at least two queens walk into the hive when I dumped them. But today when I looked at the frames I saw no eggs or queen. I did not do a detailed inspection because the comb is so delicate and you can tell by my little oopsie.''

Xerox please forgive me as I am a little confused.
Hive 1 does have a mated laying queen but low on bees? In that case, more space than the bees can patrol can lead to danger form SHB. In this unique case, I would down size as needed in order to help this hive. A smaller strong hive is better than a larger weak hive in SHB territory.
Now if SHB are not a problem for you in your area, you should be good in hive 1. If hive 2 is plenty strong enough, then sure give hive 1 a frame of capped brood from hive 2

Hive 3, the new hive form the swarm, should have the original queen which left with the swarm. This new hive should be ok, that is if the queen was not damaged or lost in the oopsie.

I hope this will help you. If not there are more experienced keepers here who most likely chime in.
Phillip

Thank you for your help. No we don't have SHB so I'll leave the boxes on Hive 1. Ill add a frame of brood from Hive 2 to give it a little boost until brood starts hatching. I will wait another week for Hive 3 and if nothing shows I will add a queen.

Your welcime Xerox. It must be nice not having to deal with these PEST! (SHB) .

Best to you.
Phillip

Ben Framed · July 20, 2019, 02:12:59 AM

Xerox, I just thought of a situation that I had last year. This may or may not help you but I will share it with you just the same. I had a hive that I had cutout in the spring, It was thriving. I do not know what did it, as we do not have bears here and the cows and horses were on the other side of the fence. But something knocked over one of my hard earned, thriving cut out hives! These frames were not reinforced with anything such as fishing line as I now use for foundation-less. The top or bottom did not come off as it was secure and upon first notice I thought all would be fine. Well it wasn't fine. The combs, upon impacting the ground, and the weather being hot, and a lot of the comb being new, pancaked upon one another. We are talking a real mess. Most comb was jared form the frames and many bees were crushed. I salvaged what I could using rubber bands to re-fill the now empty frames. All the while I was looking for the queen, I did not see her. I waited a couple days and still could not find the queen, I was very inexperienced to say the least, I should have known that if the queen was lost in the pile of dead bees, mixed with honey and comb, they would have tried to build new emergency queen cells in some of the remaining comb which was sure to have eggs. Well I panicked, I ordered four mated queens for David at Barnyard Bees. and a youtube teacher. The queens arrived in a short while. (amazing service) I ordered these queens with the idea of just going ahead and splitting what was left of the original hive. To my surprise, inspecting one last time, I found the queen! Now here I was with four new mated queens and my original queen to boot. So I went ahead with my original plans and converted the two messed up brood boxes into 5 nucs. All made it through winter and the rest is history. What seemed to be a tragedy turned out to be a blessing! Don't give up on you hive number 3 queen to soon. Give it a few days. They just swarmed on the 6th. you have plenty of time before having to deal with a laying worker. It is a good chance that she is still in there. If she was killed in the oops then they will make new emergency cells. Upon you next inspection of hive 3, make sure that you do not tilt the frames. Keep them level as you check them out. Look for queen cells, eggs etc. If you still find no queen or eggs or queen cells. Then...... I have one last question. was the queen form hive 1, that swarmed which is the beginning of hive 3, marked?
Phillip

Donovan J · July 20, 2019, 10:23:01 AM

Quote from: Ben Framed on July 20, 2019, 02:12:59 AM
Xerox, I just thought of a situation that I had last year. This may or may not help you but I will share it with you just the same. I had a hive that I had cutout in the spring, It was thriving. I do not know what did it, as we do not have bears here and the cows and horses were on the other side of the fence. But something knocked over one of my hard earned, thriving cut out hives! These frames were not reinforced with anything such as fishing line as I now use for foundation-less. The top or bottom did not come off as it was secure and upon first notice I thought all would be fine. Well it wasn't fine. The combs, upon impacting the ground, and the weather being hot, and a lot of the comb being new, pancaked upon one another. We are talking a real mess. Most comb was jared form the frames and many bees were crushed. I salvaged what I could using rubber bands to re-fill the now empty frames. All the while I was looking for the queen, I did not see her. I waited a couple days and still could not find the queen, I was very inexperienced to say the least, I should have known that if the queen was lost in the pile of dead bees, mixed with honey and comb, they would have tried to build new emergency queen cells in some of the remaining comb which was sure to have eggs. Well I panicked, I ordered four mated queens for David at Barnyard Bees. and a youtube teacher. The queens arrived in a short while. (amazing service) I ordered these queens with the idea of just going ahead and splitting what was left of the original hive. To my surprise, inspecting one last time, I found the queen! Now here I was with four new mated queens and my original queen to boot. So I went ahead with my original plans and converted the two messed up brood boxes into 5 nucs. All made it through winter and the rest is history. What seemed to be a tragedy turned out to be a blessing! Don't give up on you hive number 3 queen to soon. Give it a few days. They just swarmed on the 6th. you have plenty of time before having to deal with a laying worker. It is a good chance that she is still in there. If she was killed in the oops then they will make new emergency cells. Upon you next inspection of hive 3, make sure that you do not tilt the frames. Keep them level as you check them out. Look for queen cells, eggs etc. If you still find no queen or eggs or queen cells. Then...... I have one last question. was the queen form hive 1, that swarmed which is the beginning of hive 3, marked?
Phillip

No she is unmarked. I tried to find her yesterday so I can mark her.