Plastic cell for the long run

Ben Framed · March 14, 2020, 12:56:02 PM

I just watched a video by jtcmedic. I really liked what I observed, especially the way the bees were drawing out the plastic cell. I have questions for you long time users of plastic foundation. Would you consider plastic foundation to be an investment of a long haul, a many years useage material? Possibly a life time if not abused or misused?

Thanks,
Phillip Hall
.

jalentour · March 14, 2020, 01:22:56 PM

Are you speaking of plastic frame, plastic foundation or something else?

Sorry not following...

Ben Framed · March 14, 2020, 01:43:38 PM

Quote from: jvalentour on March 14, 2020, 01:22:56 PM
Are you speaking of plastic frame, plastic foundation or something else?

Sorry not following...

"I have questions for you long time users of plastic foundation"

No wonder you were not following, I crammed a lot in there! lol My apologies.
But yes plastic foundations. I really liked your video by the way, my complements.

Phillip Hall

jtcmedic · March 14, 2020, 05:41:24 PM

I have only the 3 years in and last 2 been using the plastic acorn and they drew them out better in my opinion. They make a wood version mr Ed just got a lot up at the Abby

MikeyN.C. · March 14, 2020, 06:25:31 PM

Ben, I've got maybe 20 plastics (black) I'll send u free , u pay shipping.

jalentour · March 14, 2020, 06:34:53 PM

I've used black plastic frame/foundation for about 5 years.
They hold up better than wood/wax. No splitting, no nail pull, no blowout in the extractor, no wax moth (damage). They warp if not properly stored.
Not good for cutting out queen cells but you can plan for that.
You probably know you need to paint on wax for improved performance.

MikeyN.C. · March 14, 2020, 07:19:49 PM

Yes, dipped in wax. Not that plastic can't be used, but with wax foundation's. If bee's want a hole to pass through quickly, they can. Bee's in box with plastic , have to go around

Ben Framed · March 14, 2020, 07:52:20 PM

Thanks you both for your answers. This is a help. What I am thinking is plastic for honey and foundationless for brood chambers, adding the paus method in the foundationless brood section. I guess you could call it a hybrid frame situation! lol
That should cure the queen cell blockade, as far as cutting the cells out yet still afford the luxury of no blowouts in an extractor?

Phillip Hall

amymcg · March 14, 2020, 09:59:26 PM

I've been using black plastic mann lake frames for several years. I do find that they can sometimes warp, but I've had few issues with adoption.

cao · March 15, 2020, 01:30:47 PM

Quote from: Ben Framed on March 14, 2020, 07:52:20 PM
Thanks you both for your answers. This is a help. What I am thinking is plastic for honey and foundationless for brood chambers, adding the paus method in the foundationless brood section. I guess you could call it a hybrid frame situation! lol
That should cure the queen cell blockade, as far as cutting the cells out yet still afford the luxury of no blowouts in an extractor?

Phillip Hall

That is good in theory but I have found that frames tend to get mixed up over time. I have frames of all kinds of foundation/foundationless in my hives. They all work the same once drawn out.

Ben Framed · March 15, 2020, 06:45:34 PM

> I've been using black plastic mann lake frames for several years. I do find that they can sometimes warp, but I've had
few issues with adoption.

Thanks Amy. I make all my frames so I will be going the foundation route.

>That is good in theory but I have found that frames tend to get mixed up over time. I have frames of all kinds of
foundation/foundationless in my hives. They all work the same once drawn out.

Very good point Cao. I'm glad you chimed in as a reminder. I will keep this in mind and try and pay extra
attention,hopefully I can keep them separated if I discipline myself as I go, but that remains to be seen. lol

Phillip Hall

TheHoneyPump · March 16, 2020, 11:04:35 PM

In efforts to keep plastics separate from honey products, what I do is summarized as:

- black plastic foundation in brood chambers, under queen excluders

- wired wax foundations wood frames in honey supers, above queen excluders.

- all equipment is same size. 10 frame deeps.

- Black plastic may be seen put briefly in honey supers for initial drawing out before going down into brood box.

- brood frames, regardless of type, are cycled out at 4 to 6 years based on comb cell condition. Ie the wax on plastic frames does not last any longer. Plastic can be reused after considerable effort at cleaning and renewing them .... just like wired/waxed wood frames can be reused after cutout rewiring and new wax sheet.

- NB; I have never attempted foundation less.

Observations:
- The beekeeper really likes the plastic because it is much easier to scrape clean of burr comb and bridging off of frame bars
- The all-plastic uniframe is very durable, minimal breakage from handling. No frame nails/staples to separate.
- The bees exhibit no preference in terms of draw speed between a quality waxed plastic frame such as Acorn or a traditional wood/wax foundation frame.
- the bees apply ALOT more propolis and bridge/burr comb to wood frames.
- not all plastic offerings are the same. Some are very poor, particularly for warp bowing of the sheet, rendering them useless in less than one year.

Please don?t ask for a lot of questions/details ... Offered is merely one guy?s summary for your own considerations.

Ben Framed · March 17, 2020, 12:18:54 AM

Thank you Mr HP for your valued input. I am holding my hand over my mouth keeping the questions. lol

Phillip Hall

Oldbeavo · March 17, 2020, 06:35:05 AM

Mickey
The best part of plastic foundation on the brood is that the queen cannot duck through the holes or the bottom and you some times find her running along the bottom of the frame.
We use plastic foundation in wooden frames . The foundation has the corners cut off to allow bees the duck around to the other side.
All foundation is wax coated and if we give the bees new frames they get a whole 8 new frames. do not mix drawn and new plastic.
Just for the economics, a sheet of plastic foundation is $1.30, wax foundation is $2 plus wire , plus eyelets plus a heap of time.

Ben Framed · March 17, 2020, 12:17:12 PM

Quote from: Oldbeavo on March 17, 2020, 06:35:05 AM
Mickey
The best part of plastic foundation on the brood is that the queen cannot duck through the holes or the bottom and you some times find her running along the bottom of the frame.
We use plastic foundation in wooden frames . The foundation has the corners cut off to allow bees the duck around to the other side.
All foundation is wax coated and if we give the bees new frames they get a whole 8 new frames. do not mix drawn and new plastic.
Just for the economics, a sheet of plastic foundation is $1.30, wax foundation is $2 plus wire , plus eyelets plus a heap of time.

I?m not Mikey but I certainly appreciate you explanation. 😁

Phillip Hall

Oldbeavo · March 17, 2020, 05:35:16 PM

Hi Ben
Mickey from reply #6
From experience, you need to match your frames and foundation, we bought some foundation that was about 1 1/2 mm wider than normal but was then tight in the frames and when put out in the hive the temp made them bow a little and the bees did not use the outside of the bow.
You need a bit of free play in frame.