Hornet Identification Help

Leoj900 · April 18, 2020, 01:01:54 PM

I have found a couple of these solitary wasps/hornets checking out the area. I am wondering if I could get help with an ID. Its markings are not like European hornet. I could not find anything online. The area is northeast Georgia next to Carolina.
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Seeb · April 18, 2020, 01:15:29 PM

"15th Member" is really good at identifying insects, so I will defer to her. It looks like this one has seen it's last days, so can you get us measurements?

Leoj900 · April 18, 2020, 02:21:34 PM

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The15thMember · April 18, 2020, 02:38:01 PM

Quote from: Seeb on April 18, 2020, 01:15:29 PM
"15th Member" is really good at identifying insects, so I will defer to her. It looks like this one has seen it's last days, so can you get us measurements?

Thank you for the vote of confidence, Aurelia.

Okay. I'm having some trouble with this one. Wasps can be hard to ID because people don't really care about them, so ID websites like BugGuide don't have a lot of pictures and information to go on. I'm pretty sure it's from the family Vespidae, the family that contains hornets and yellowjackets, just by the way it looks and its size. My gut says it's some type of hornet, something similar to a European hornet, but you are right, the coloration isn't correct for a European hornet. Have you seen any living ones? What were they doing? Do you know where their nest is? Any additional information you can tell me? I'll keep digging in the meantime.

Seeb · April 18, 2020, 02:48:36 PM

could it be the great golden digger wasp?? They can get up in lengths of .90 inches

Here's a link:
https://www.insectidentification.org/insect-description.asp?identification=Great-Golden-Digger-Wasp

Ever notice how we beeks like a challenge

The15thMember · April 18, 2020, 02:53:39 PM

Quote from: Seeb on April 18, 2020, 02:48:36 PM
Ever notice how we beeks like a challenge

Always!

Quote from: Seeb on April 18, 2020, 02:48:36 PM
could it be the great golden digger wasp?? They can get up in lengths of .90 inches

No, I don't think so. The Sphex wasps are very delicate looking, whereas the insect that Leo posted is chunkier. I love Great Golden Diggers, by the way. There was one nesting under our washline last year. I got to see her digging out her nest, which was awesome. The solitary wasps are so docile, unlike the social ones. Kind of like bees actually.

Leoj900 · April 18, 2020, 03:06:25 PM

I love having the help! I have seen a number of them and they all are usually hovering over the ground inspecting things and really paying no heed to my presence. If you have been around cicada killers, then it acts similar to those.

Leoj900 · April 18, 2020, 03:09:56 PM

I have been trying to find its nest. I am assuming it is a burrowing solitary wasp of some kind. The internet is failing me with anything I look up though.

paus · April 18, 2020, 03:20:24 PM

All my life these have been called "Good News" bee. It is not a bee but that's what the old timers called it before I was an old timer.

The15thMember · April 18, 2020, 03:42:06 PM

Quote from: Leoj900 on April 18, 2020, 03:06:25 PM
I love having the help! I have seen a number of them and they all are usually hovering over the ground inspecting things and really paying no heed to my presence. If you have been around cicada killers, then it acts similar to those.

I have had the pleasure of witnessing cicada killers. They are quite the impressive predator insect!

Quote from: Leoj900 on April 18, 2020, 03:09:56 PM
I have been trying to find its nest. I am assuming it is a burrowing solitary wasp of some kind. The internet is failing me with anything I look up though.

Same here regarding the internet. I'm personally not thinking along the lines of a solitary wasp. Most solitary wasps are not shaped like this, they are typically more slender. Honestly to me this looks like a hornet worker, but I can't for the life of me figure out what species. Here's a European hornet:
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Your insect looks VERY similar to this, it's basically just a different color. There is some color variation amongst hornets, kind of like there is with honey bees, but I think that the color variation between the Euro hornet and yours to too great to be the same species. But the European hornet is the only giant hornet in the US to my knowledge, except the Asian hornet that has just invaded the Pacific Northwest. It could be a large species of yellow jacket, like the bald-faced hornet, which is not a true hornet, but nothing I look at in that genus matches it either. Hmm. . . .

Leoj900 · April 18, 2020, 03:58:47 PM

It definitely most closely resembles the European hornet. The colors are very off though. I just was watching one surveying the side of our house. I might have to take a walk in the woods and see if I can find a nest. That would prove it for me. Thank you for your help.

Leoj900 · April 18, 2020, 04:10:55 PM

This is the closest I have found to what it looks like. It is definitely not a reputable source though.
https://www.uglyhedgehog.com/t-74674-1.html

Seeb · April 18, 2020, 04:13:21 PM

I've had hornets make a nest in my attic. The vent screen had worn out [my house is 110 years old] and they had gotten in that way. So if you've got an attic access you might want to poke your head in and see.

Seeb · April 18, 2020, 04:16:09 PM

This is the closest I have found to what it looks like

could it be possible that the colors of your specimen could have darkened with death

The15thMember · April 18, 2020, 04:23:51 PM

Quote from: Leoj900 on April 18, 2020, 04:10:55 PM
This is the closest I have found to what it looks like. It is definitely not a reputable source though.
https://www.uglyhedgehog.com/t-74674-1.html

Oh man, whatever that thing is, that is it. But as you say, could be easily mislabeled.

Quote from: Leoj900 on April 18, 2020, 03:58:47 PM
It definitely most closely resembles the European hornet. The colors are very off though. I just was watching one surveying the side of our house. I might have to take a walk in the woods and see if I can find a nest. That would prove it for me. Thank you for your help.

Oh you are welcome. As I'm sure you can tell, I love identifying insects, and really any type of critter. Now there is a possibility, which I'm hesitant to mention because it's a easy way out, but it is possible that it's a species or subspecies that hasn't been described in a while or ever. Records about insects species and their ranges are terribly meager when compared to other animals (like birds for example), and many areas haven't had any sort of comprehensive surveying done in a long time or ever, especially with a group of animals like hornets, which aren't really of any economic importance. Basically what I'm saying is that if the species/subspecies is rare, we armchair entomologists probably won't be able to find record of it on the internet, because it may have never been photographed and/or the records may be too old to be digitized. I don't want to say, "Well, we can't figure it out, so it's definitely a new or rare species," because obviously I am not a real entomologist and in reality have nothing to go on but educated guesses, but it is a possibility. If you are really curious you could try contacting your state extension office, or a museum or college with a specimen collection. And I'll keep my eyes peeled for it as I'm perusing around. Definitely a tricky one. . . .

beesnweeds · April 18, 2020, 04:39:53 PM

It looks like it may be a Genus Vespula queen. Markings and color of the thorax look similar.

http://native-bees-of-georgia.ggc.edu/?page_id=504

The15thMember · April 18, 2020, 04:49:56 PM

Quote from: beesnweeds on April 18, 2020, 04:39:53 PM
It looks like it may be a Genus Vespula queen. Markings and color of the thorax look similar.

http://native-bees-of-georgia.ggc.edu/?page_id=504

THAT'S IT!!! Vespula squamosa, the southern yellowjacket. I never thought about the fact that it could be a queen of a smaller species.

https://bugguide.net/node/view/7097

I found this to be particularly confirming "The queens are extremely large and robust for a yellowjacket, a trait which surely helps them to overpower and kill the host queens of the colonies they usurp." They are sort of like cuckoo wasps; the queens take over existing nests of other types of yellowjackets. "After killing the host queen, the squamosa adopts the nest and host workers, who raise her offspring. The colony eventually becomes pure squamosa as the original host workers die off." Fascinating. YES, WE FIGURED IT OUT! Now I can go on with my life.

Seriously though, that was a fun one.

Thank you so much, beesnweeds, that was the lead we needed!

Seeb · April 18, 2020, 04:57:24 PM

Seriously though, that was a fun one. Sure was

Leoj900 · April 18, 2020, 06:05:04 PM

We did it! I grew up around ?Yellow Jackets? and would not have thought about looking to see if this big girl was related to that. That was fun and I am so happy that we came to an answer.
This reminds me that last year, my wife and I found a cute spiky black caterpillar up in Michigan and thought it would be fun to find out what it was. Not only could we not find it after hours of scrolling through caterpillars, we could not find anything that looked remotely like it. I wish we had kept it and found out what it looks like as an adult.

The15thMember · April 18, 2020, 06:17:12 PM

Quote from: Leoj900 on April 18, 2020, 06:05:04 PM
We did it! I grew up around ?Yellow Jackets? and would not have thought about looking to see if this big girl was related to that. That was fun and I am so happy that we came to an answer.
This reminds me that last year, my wife and I found a cute spiky black caterpillar up in Michigan and thought it would be fun to find out what it was. Not only could we not find it after hours of scrolling through caterpillars, we could not find anything that looked remotely like it. I wish we had kept it and found out what it looks like as an adult.

If you have a picture we could give it a shot. Caterpillars are generally easier than wasps, since lots of people collect butterflies and moths. Spiky and black is pretty common among caterpillars though.