Use of Modern Technologies in Beekeeping

[BagziK]

Thanks Bagzik you reported on an app that has been developed in reply #14, (to be clear), are you speaking of two different apps. One which is developed and one which is still in development?

Phillip

Yes, these are two different applications. The application that is being developed in our country is still not finished. I don't know who developed this application, I found it later.

[Ben Framed]

Thank you BagziK

Phillip

[The15thMember]

Yes, I totally agree. Application to find Queen bee, That seems like a good thing to me because it will save our time. Honestly, I write down all the observations in the apiary by hand in my notebook, although I plan to make a table in Google Sheets, which I will use as a beekeeper's diary. It will include the condition of the hives, the age of the queen,the amount of food, the strength of the colony, the date of the inspection, etc. I will share table here.

I use a combination of paper and digital notes too.  I need to write and sometimes refer back to some of my notes in the bee yard, and I still find paper easiest for that. 

I totally agree, This would be helpful for beginners. I remember when I started beekeeping how hard it was for me to find a queen bee.

My only concern with something like this for beginners is that it becomes a crutch for new beekeepers, and they only learn to use the app to find the queen and then they can't without the help of the app.  I just feel like that's not really learning, because then if they need to find a queen and don't have access to a phone with the app, they're unable to stand on their own two feet, so to speak.  Now if it can help beginners learn to find queens, that's a whole other thing.  It's like teaching kids math: they can't use the calculator until they learn to do it by hand, or they aren't learning math, they are learning how to use a calculator.           

[BagziK]

Yes, I totally agree. Application to find Queen bee, That seems like a good thing to me because it will save our time. Honestly, I write down all the observations in the apiary by hand in my notebook, although I plan to make a table in Google Sheets, which I will use as a beekeeper's diary. It will include the condition of the hives, the age of the queen,the amount of food, the strength of the colony, the date of the inspection, etc. I will share table here.

I use a combination of paper and digital notes too.  I need to write and sometimes refer back to some of my notes in the bee yard, and I still find paper easiest for that. 

I totally agree, This would be helpful for beginners. I remember when I started beekeeping how hard it was for me to find a queen bee.

My only concern with something like this for beginners is that it becomes a crutch for new beekeepers, and they only learn to use the app to find the queen and then they can't without the help of the app.  I just feel like that's not really learning, because then if they need to find a queen and don't have access to a phone with the app, they're unable to stand on their own two feet, so to speak.  Now if it can help beginners learn to find queens, that's a whole other thing.  It's like teaching kids math: they can't use the calculator until they learn to do it by hand, or they aren't learning math, they are learning how to use a calculator.         

Interesting comparison, I have to agree :). Sometimes it takes a man to work hard to learn some things.

[BagziK]

Thanks Bagzik you reported on an app that has been developed in reply #14, (to be clear), are you speaking of two different apps. One which is developed and one which is still in development?

BagziK
I don?t think it?s going to be that successful. I think it will when scanning the frame, the application will mix the drone and queen bee.

Good point but technology is still advancing so maybe this goal can still be achieved along with my two questions . (I am being optimistic lol).
That is why I am 'still interested' in understanding the 'technology' of this 'new developing application';

I realize the application is not yet fully developed as you have stated, but one must assume 'basic knowledge' of the application is known by the inventors or they would not be talking about it.... Do you by any chance know the people, or are you associated with any of folks which are developing this 'new' application?

Phillip

Unfortunately, I don't know the developers. I read this on a facebook page from a beekeeper. He said the application would be completed in a month.
I?ll do my best to find out who these guys are and check on how it?s progressing.

[Ben Framed]

You two making the point of having the concern of something like this for beginners becoming a crutch is reasonable when first used by the beginner. However, I do not think the crutch will last long if we consider; When the queen is found by looking through the phone screen with the aid of the applications' built in 'red dot' which is displayed on her back, through the phone screen, all is fine. The beekeeper will know which frame she is on and her pinpoint location.

But; considering the queen can still be lost in the shuffle once the phone is moved away once the attention is drawn away from the phone screen and refocused on the frame itself. In a split second the queen can be lost from sight. Many times the queen will be moving and so will the workers. If the queen is to be moved, marked, replaced, caged etc. the beekeeper will still need to zero in on the queen wth the naked eye to accomplish the feat of finding her, this time without the aid of the phones' zeroed in 'spot'.I would thing it may be hard to pick up a queen looking through the screen of a phone. The keeper will still have to adjust to finding the queen with the phone placed aside when using only the naked eye. In this way the app can be viewed as a training tool, learning to spot the queen without it will a progression learning education experience in progress, along with other beekeeping experiences.

The real advantage I see, will be the keeper will have the advantage of being more zeroed in on the correct frame, having confidence the queen is located on the 'specific frame' in hand.

Actually the red dot on the queen, could be an asset to a seasoned beekeeper as well at times? Especially is the queen is the same color as the worker bee.
And if the queen can be successfully be located, even beneath a 'covey' (lol), of nurses bees out of the view of the naked eye? Of course we do not know yet if the App in progress, is capable of this functioning technology ....

Phillip

[Ben Framed]

Unfortunately, I don't know the developers. I read this on a facebook page from a beekeeper. He said the application would be completed in a month.
I?ll do my best to find out who these guys are and check on how it?s progressing.

Thank you very much BagziK for this interesting topic...

Phillip

[Oldbeavo]

A New Zealand company called Hive Mind offer the option of bee traffic counting. They do weight as well.
They use satellite communication to your phone or computer.
The bee traffic info is fun but hive weight at a set time will tell you what the bees are doing. Why pay for fun technology?
Temperature is a difficult one as most sensors are on the wall of the hive and don't give an accurate reading of the bees temperature.
The sensor needs to be on a cable and inserted into the middle of the box.
I am not sure what to do about high temp other than make sure your bees are in shade and have access to water in Summer.
Temperature control is a management issue before the event.

The queen detector technology is fine so long as the queen plays the game and stays exposed. Does it work if the queen is running around in the box?

[beesnweeds]

A New Zealand company called Hive Mind offer the option of bee traffic counting. They do weight as well.
They use satellite communication to your phone or computer.
The bee traffic info is fun but hive weight at a set time will tell you what the bees are doing. Why pay for fun technology?

This would be awesome; it may seem like just fun technology in Australia but valuable to us beekeepers with varroa mites.  It could be a good indicator for when to treat.  If traffic increases and mite numbers increase, foragers may be robbing a weak hive in your area.  It has possibilities as another mite management tool.

[Oldbeavo]

How does bee traffic and mite numbers correlate?

[The15thMember]

How does bee traffic and mite numbers correlate?

Many mites come into the hive from robbers and from field bees picking them up out foraging.  I listened to a really interesting podcast about this subject recently from my state bee inspector Lewis Cauble in an interview with Dr. Gloria DeGrandi-Hoffman.  Here's the link if anyone is interested: https://thewellmanagedhive.podbean.com/e/dr-gloria-degrandi-hoffman/  You can also listen on Apple podcasts if you prefer. 

[Ben Framed]

I posted the following on the other topic which is ongoing concerning phone apps and varroa destructor. That app was clear as to how it worked and the following applies directly to that subject.

This app is still in the process of development as reported by BagziK. We will know more of how this app works on varroa and locating and finding  queens as the information unfolds.



This looks interesting but according to Dr Samuel Ramsey the majority of mites hide 'beneath the bees' between platelets on the abdomen. This was brought up on one of the post on the following listed topic some time ago.
Concentrating a search, on the top of the bees for varroa may be deceiving as far as the concern of infestation levels by varroa mites in our bee colonies.

Search Topic: "Varroa control via capped brood removal during dearth".

Their was much discussion there by a 'few' of Beemasters 'Heavy Hitters'. Such as Van from Arkansas, AR Beekeeper, The15thMember, Robo, Absinthe, jtcmedic,TheHoneyPump, SiWolKe, beesnweeds, cao, Michael Bush, and Myself, Ben Framed (light hitter) lol

Phillip

[beesnweeds]

How does bee traffic and mite numbers correlate?

Many mites come into the hive from robbers and from field bees picking them up out foraging.  I listened to a really interesting podcast about this subject recently from my state bee inspector Lewis Cauble in an interview with Dr. Gloria DeGrandi-Hoffman.  Here's the link if anyone is interested: https://thewellmanagedhive.podbean.com/e/dr-gloria-degrandi-hoffman/  You can also listen on Apple podcasts if you prefer.

Thank You! Thats one I haven't heard yet.

[Ben Framed]

The15thMember posted a short video of a mite which seemed to 'leap' on a bee which was amazing to see! In description, it looked similar to a very small steel pin head when a magnet might be waved over. It was instantaneous!

Phillip

[Bill Murray]

Phillip, as I posted in the other topic. And Just my opinion, it would have to be run directly in correlation with whatever means was being used for a mite check. See what the numbers say, then it either works or doesn't. I was late getting treatments on 1 yard  this year, and had to retreat multiple hives due to post treatment drops so when they are pulled, If I can get my daughter to work with me my plan is to check these hives both ways at the same time then bounce the numbers against each other. If it looks promising and isnt a pain to use, I will try it a second time when I pull supers. that should be a better indication if its close or not. Again just my opinion, Im not against technology but a lot of thing that are thrown out there seem to take more time, effort, or cost than they are worth. What I really need is an App that will do splits for me, and pull supers, and paint, with a twinkle of my nose. Now that I would buy into.

[Ben Framed]

Bill I think this will be a fun project for you and your daughter. To be clear, I am in no way attempting to dissuade you from having the fun and fellowship of you two using this App together.

Since my short time of beekeeping along with being a member here at Beemaster, Varroa Destructor has been a 'hot' subject that continues to come back time and time again, and rightfully so. This pest IS a game changer for the beekeeping world and the beekeeper which has to deal with it. Even thought there are a few beekeepers who have 'gotten away' with not treating, (I applaud them for their success). I hope that success continues. The same can be said for the cotton farmer and the 'boll weevil'.. j/k lol...

As I said above, I think this App will be a fun project for you and your young daughter. At the same time I also feel an oblation to warn of the dangers of Varroa Destructor and the app as a 'dependable way' of mite check levels, (to anyone who might have read this topic from its original standpoint and perhaps came to the conclusion of thinking this app can be depended upon for a 'reliable' indicator of when and when not to treat. Not knowing the underlying dangers of varroa which can only be seen on the 'top of the bee'.  Not realizing 'the real danger' of Varroa which can not be seen 'underneath' the bee. It will be interesting to see how this progresses in your experiment of comparing the methods.

Dr Samuel Ramsey, a scientist of indisputable reputation, an expert on Varroa Destructor and its relation to the honey bee; Discovered that varroa live on 'bee fat', not 'bee blood' (Van from Arkansas 'a scientist', likened this fat in the bee as a bee liver), while the latter, 'varroa living off of 'bee blood', had been accepted incorrectly by the 'entire' scientific bee community for many years.

Dr Ramsey also 'warned' of the 'deception' of varroa which can be seen on top of the bee as 'not reliable' or to not be 'depended upon' for accuracy. Hit and miss if you will..

Therefore I am still of the opinion, if a beekeeper really wants to get a better, (maybe the best), indication percentage wise, of mite infection in his or her hive, the alcohol wash method might still be the best avenue thus far..

For our newer beekeepers who would like to hear more about this and other finding of Dr Ramsey, I will post the video which clearly revels several needed to know facts about 'Varroa Destructor'.

Thanks,

Phillip


https://youtu.be/DK2Xi0ST4rA

[Bill Murray]

Here is my opinion any one can keep bees if:
1)You keep up on the mite counts on all your hives, and treat when necessary. I have stated earlier my opinion on OA. I treat with the expectation that at least 1 hive in any given yard has mites. I no longer do a pre check, because if one has mites they will all have mites.And I have never gotten a hive without a drop of 2 in January. I always do a post check which is dependent on the amount of hives in the yard,and or the drop results. Now I will go a bit further on this. I also switched from an alcohol wash to co2 three years ago. It wasnt about killing bees, it was just so much quicker and simpler. I also found I was getting more or less the same counts when done alongside an alcohol wash. Contrary to some things you'll read.  Or I wouldnt have made that change. Also if I have to treat and cant get honey who cares, I move those bees to a different yard and those bees will make bees for me. Now this all may fall apart at some given time on some given day. But I dont think it will if I keep on top of it. Varroa was what ran me out of beekeeping to start with. Ive learned a lot about that little critter, probably not enough yet and  probably a lot more before its all over.
2) You feed your bees when necessary.
Other than that they can basically take care of themselves. and you wouldnt even have to feed them if we didnt steal the honey from them.
I wasnt doing this as a fun thing I was doing this to see if it actually worked and if it would be easier. I find checking for mites right below painting in the things I enjoy doing. And painting is at the top of my list on things I despise doing.
Bill

[Ben Framed]

For the benefit of beginners who might read this, you might add SHB to that list. They will take a weak hive down, and fast if given half a chance. Varroa Destructor, one pest as you have pointed out with your first hand experience of devastating results, along with SHB another pest as pointed out by Cao on other topics, can be devastating as well. 

Shared information can be valuable for those who will receive it.
I do not know anything about the Co2 method of mite detection. Perhaps you will share information of that method and how to use it?
Good luck with your app Bill, Wishing you the best!

Phillip

[guitarstitch]

Technology has a place for tracking and such.  However, I fear that as people enter the field (hobbyist or commercial), they should avoid using things that "cheat" (for lack of a better word) the training and knowledge gaining process.  It's similar to using software for calculations - handy to have, but you can't be sure of how the calculation actually works or of its accuracy unless you understand the basic mathematics behind it.

[Ben Framed]

Technology has a place for tracking and such.  However, I fear that as people enter the field (hobbyist or commercial), they should avoid using things that "cheat" (for lack of a better word) the training and knowledge gaining process.  It's similar to using software for calculations - handy to have, but you can't be sure of how the calculation actually works or of its accuracy unless you understand the basic mathematics behind it.

Yes, technology does have its place in tracking and such, in many avenues. But I am afraid not in this case. Going by the words of Dr Samuel Ramsey. (Unless of course newer information has been uncovered in research and technology? (since the above video was made?)  And If so, has it been explained or clarified here?

Dr Ramsey explains 'in detail' in the 'above' video why 'viewing can be deceptive' starting at point of minute: 14:33 to the minute: 18:16  I hope this helps.

Phillip