Bear Attack

Donovan J · September 21, 2022, 01:32:42 PM

My hive was attacked by a bear. The one thing I didn't want to happen. I went out Monday morning to take a look at the hive and it was drug across the yard, pallet, ratchet strap, and all and there was frames and boxes everywhere. Luckily the bottom brood box was still intact on its side with all the frames in it. The top brood box was intact with a few frames missing. Both honey supers were slightly damaged with all frames scattered and without honey. I quickly put them back together and immediately moved them to a different spot miles away so they are safe. My question is where to go from here? I'm planning on checking for a queen in a few days after they settle down and feeding them 2:1 syrup to replenish stores. They seem calm like they have a queen but I'm not hinging my bets on it and I'm willing to buy a new queen if needed

TheHoneyPump · September 21, 2022, 05:17:51 PM

You?ve done all the right things after bear attack.
The only thing I would change is about when to go check them. Give them 7 to 10 days before you go dig in. But not more than 12. Reason to wait a bit longer is at the 7-10 day point they will have cleaned themselves up, repaired the critical areas of damage, and .. it will be easy and very clear to know if they are queenrite. Queen = nice new patches of eggs and young juicy larvae. No queen = only capped brood and nice patches of emergency queen cells capped everywhere. If you go in sooner, you will have to look around lot more and work harder to find what you are trying to figure out (queen or no). More that 12 days you risk missing the window to -manage- the recovery by havoc of multiple emerged virgins running around causing chaos .
Other than that, manage the hive the same as and no different than any other hive in your apiary. If they need feed, the. feed now. No need to wait for after the inspection.

Hope that helps!

The15thMember · September 21, 2022, 07:23:02 PM

I've never dealt with this personally, but people do in my area, and everyone I've talked to about it says electric is the only way to keep them out once they've destroyed a hive.

BeeMaster2 · September 21, 2022, 10:47:26 PM

Sorry to hear about the bear attack. I?ve been in your shoes. You were lucky. Bears usually go for the brood first for the protein.
You will definitely need a strong, minimum 5 mile electric fence to stop that bear. When you set it up, make sure you use an eight foot ground rod and hang a piece of lunch meat or 2 on the Elecrtic wire. My bear never returned after finding it. When they bite it, they not only get a shock, it will also light up their brain which gives them a bright white flash on light in their eyes like you would not believe as well as a bad shock to the heart. As a retired electronics technician, I know how bad it can bee.
Jim Altmiller

Michael Bush · September 22, 2022, 06:54:07 AM

Also, if you live in an area with dry spells, be sure to water the ground rod when you haven't had rain recently...

Donovan J · September 22, 2022, 01:36:17 PM

Quote from: BeeMaster2 on September 21, 2022, 10:47:26 PM
Sorry to hear about the bear attack. I?ve been in your shoes. You were lucky. Bears usually go for the brood first for the protein.
You will definitely need a strong, minimum 5 mile electric fence to stop that bear. When you set it up, make sure you use an eight foot ground rod and hang a piece of lunch meat or 2 on the Elecrtic wire. My bear never returned after finding it. When they bite it, they not only get a shock, it will also light up their brain which gives them a bright white flash on light in their eyes like you would not believe as well as a bad shock to the heart. As a retired electronics technician, I know how bad it can bee.
Jim Altmiller

Yeah I'll be sure to put one up before moving them back. I'll probably overwinter them at their current location because it's well inside city limits so very very low chance of another bear attack. I have the 2:1 syrup on them to give them a boost and to start replenishing stores for the upcoming winter

Donovan J · October 05, 2022, 01:37:12 PM

Update: Checked the hive yesterday and there were queen cells. Put apivar straps in and closed them up. Sadly the queen died in the attack but they're taking action on the saved brood. My next question is, is it too late for her to mate? I live in Northern California and we're still getting temps up to 90? so I would assume there's still time for her to get mated. And if she can't will they be able to make it through the winter with a virgin queen?

The15thMember · October 05, 2022, 02:07:02 PM

Quote from: Donovan J on October 05, 2022, 01:37:12 PM
Update: Checked the hive yesterday and there were queen cells. Put apivar straps in and closed them up. Sadly the queen died in the attack but they're taking action on the saved brood. My next question is, is it too late for her to mate? I live in Northern California and we're still getting temps up to 90? so I would assume there's still time for her to get mated. And if she can't will they be able to make it through the winter with a virgin queen?

The question is less about the temperature and more about if you have drones around. Are you seeing any?

Donovan J · October 05, 2022, 02:11:34 PM

Quote from: The15thMember on October 05, 2022, 02:07:02 PM
Quote from: Donovan J on October 05, 2022, 01:37:12 PM
Update: Checked the hive yesterday and there were queen cells. Put apivar straps in and closed them up. Sadly the queen died in the attack but they're taking action on the saved brood. My next question is, is it too late for her to mate? I live in Northern California and we're still getting temps up to 90? so I would assume there's still time for her to get mated. And if she can't will they be able to make it through the winter with a virgin queen?
The question is less about the temperature and more about if you have drones around. Are you seeing any?

During the inspection I saw drones and there's plenty of hives in the area so they're still flying around

BeeMaster2 · October 05, 2022, 03:21:39 PM

What controls the number of drones if the hive is strong enough is the amount of food coming in. Keep in mind it is not your drones that count, it your neighbors.

Kathyp · October 05, 2022, 04:06:06 PM

my parents said there is a bear family wandering around. My folks are down by the lake.

Sorry that happened to you, but as you bear proof remember the other critters in the neighborhood that can be equally destructive. Maybe you can proof against all of them at the same time.

Fortunately you probably have some good weather still ahead so if you can get queen right and they have enough food hopefully you'll salvage them.

iddee · October 05, 2022, 05:18:06 PM

As for your virgin question, a virgin can only mate for about 30 days. After that, she will never mate. Overwintered virgin means drone layer or queenless

Michael Bush · October 06, 2022, 06:45:11 AM

According to Huber, if she mates after 21 days she'll be a drone layer. If she never mates she never lays. In my experience that is true. Queens with crumpled wings who can't fly never lay.

TheHoneyPump · October 06, 2022, 12:24:48 PM

Quote from: Donovan J on October 05, 2022, 01:37:12 PM
Update: Checked the hive yesterday and there were queen cells. Put apivar straps in and closed them up. Sadly the queen died in the attack but they're taking action on the saved brood. My next question is, is it too late for her to mate? I live in Northern California and we're still getting temps up to 90? so I would assume there's still time for her to get mated. And if she can't will they be able to make it through the winter with a virgin queen?

It depends ... ;) Yes, if the bee population age is young enough they will make it through winter just fine. She would emerge in the spring as a drone layer or a laying worker hive. Now ... looking at your location of California, you do not really get any winter to speak of (by my standard); the hive dynamics will be different in your conditions.
So what you should do is give her 24-28 days from now to see a laying queen. If you do not see nice egg pattern by then, buy a mated queen to get the hive restarted or combine it with another hive at that time. The recovery window by then will be small because the bees will be old, so either buy the queen now or have your source picked and ready for if needed. ..
Looking at where we are at on the bee calendar and the fact that queens will be low and slow laying for the next couple months, even a new queen. ... Really, you should just call it a loss now and combine them with another hive. You can split them out in the Spring when they are ramping up, to get your hive numbers back then.

Hope that helps!

NigelP · October 06, 2022, 02:42:16 PM

Have a hive with a new queen, she should have been mated several weeks ago, still no brood although they are still leaving her room and polished cells. I know she is/was there as saw her a few weeks ago, so reluctant to combine to another hive with a known queen present. Tried, but cannot currently spot her.....so I'm calling it a loss. Here in UK we are at last calls before our damp mild winters, little flying activity.

Donovan J · October 06, 2022, 03:06:15 PM

Quote from: TheHoneyPump on October 06, 2022, 12:24:48 PM
Quote from: Donovan J on October 05, 2022, 01:37:12 PM
Update: Checked the hive yesterday and there were queen cells. Put apivar straps in and closed them up. Sadly the queen died in the attack but they're taking action on the saved brood. My next question is, is it too late for her to mate? I live in Northern California and we're still getting temps up to 90? so I would assume there's still time for her to get mated. And if she can't will they be able to make it through the winter with a virgin queen?

It depends ... ;) Yes, if the bee population age is young enough they will make it through winter just fine. She would emerge in the spring as a drone layer or a laying worker hive. Now ... looking at your location of California, you do not really get any winter to speak of (by my standard); the hive dynamics will be different in your conditions.
So what you should do is give her 24-28 days from now to see a laying queen. If you do not see nice egg pattern by then, buy a mated queen to get the hive restarted or combine it with another hive at that time. The recovery window by then will be small because the bees will be old, so either buy the queen now or have your source picked and ready for if needed. ..
Looking at where we are at on the bee calendar and the fact that queens will be low and slow laying for the next couple months, even a new queen. ... Really, you should just call it a loss now and combine them with another hive. You can split them out in the Spring when they are ramping up, to get your hive numbers back then.

Hope that helps!

I don't have any other hives to combine with so this is it. We've got about a month before cooler temps arrive starting the very short winter so I'm thinking if I can feed as much as possible and get them a mated queen they'll be set for winter

Ben Framed · October 06, 2022, 04:59:20 PM

Quote from: NigelP on October 06, 2022, 02:42:16 PM
Have a hive with a new queen, she should have been mated several weeks ago, still no brood although they are still leaving her room and polished cells. I know she is/was there as saw her a few weeks ago, so reluctant to combine to another hive with a known queen present. Tried, but cannot currently spot her.....so I'm calling it a loss. Here in UK we are at last calls before our damp mild winters, little flying activity.

Nigel, I have a question. IF you decide to combine after 'calling it a loss' and there 'is' an unseen queen in the hive, will the bees from the hive to be combined with kill her. And just as importantly will the queen in the hive to be combined with be killed by this hive when combined? In other words, is there a chance you could wind up in a situation with 'both' hives queenless in that type of scenario? Can you purchase a proven laying queen in your area?

Phillip

NigelP · October 07, 2022, 04:30:38 AM

Unless I can find the queen it's not worth the risk of combining for the reasons you state Ben. And currently UK no queens available, and if there where it goes back to finding queen. Seen her once but she has been elusive ever since.
Not a major worry as I have 20+ hives to overwinter so potential loss of one is no big deal.
Plus as there are no winter bees in this hive it's simply not worth taking too much effort over them, will let them take their due course.

Jim134 · October 07, 2022, 05:31:56 AM

I know when I used to live in New England. You have to have bear fences. Or many of your hives would look like the original post....

BEE HAPPY Jim134 😊

Michael Bush · October 07, 2022, 06:46:07 AM

If they are polishing cells and keeping a space open for her to lay, she is probably in there, though it may be too late for her to mate. It would be best if you could find her and remove her.