Cage queen for more honey

limyw · July 11, 2007, 12:31:16 PM

I have an idea, that is to cage queen for more honey storage. Reasons: more free space for honey storage and workers are free from taking care brood. The queen will only be released after 2 weeks to avoid colony collapse. Any comment on this idea?

Robo · July 11, 2007, 12:56:40 PM

I have my doubts. You are assuming that a new born bee will forage if there is no brood to care for. I think your assumptions will burn your theory. I surely think they won't skip their house cleaning phase. For more space just add more supers.

super dave · July 11, 2007, 01:11:07 PM

more brood -- more workers -- stronger hive-- more honey

Scadsobees · July 11, 2007, 01:38:13 PM

Good thought

However.... it will be almost 2 weeks before a lot of the bees will be hatched out, 3 weeks for some. In the mean time that brood still needs feeding and that space won't free up. It is necessary for some climates in order to treat disease but don't have a winter brood break.

But...you might be thinking more along the lines of a cut-down split, read this through: http://bushfarms.com/beessplits.htm
This removes the open brood(where the resources are being used up) but retains the ready to hatch bees and the workers.

It is not as useful if you have longer smaller nectar flows but could be more so in a short but intense nectar flow.

Rick

BeeHopper · July 11, 2007, 03:07:43 PM

Quote from: limyw on July 11, 2007, 12:31:16 PM
I have an idea, that is to cage queen for more honey storage. Reasons: more free space for honey storage and workers are free from taking care brood. The queen will only be released after 2 weeks to avoid colony collapse. Any comment on this idea?

More supers mean more storage. Lets not mess with what the Honey Bee does best

doak · July 11, 2007, 05:09:17 PM

Cage the queen for more honey? I don't think so.
For disaster? maybe.
doak

Mici · July 11, 2007, 06:36:35 PM

hmmm i'd say he's right.
anyone read about the..hummm "in honey favour" split?
when you take all the open brood out, so less bees have to care for them, thus more bees can cure honey, store it etc etc.

although...timing would have to be...jeesh, ok...so the queen shouldn't be caged for more than 10 days so...you would have to cage her around 10 days before the expected flow, so when the flow would start the opened brood would be all gone. i could "describe" the theory more exactly but....it's merelly a theory, one that would probably not stand a chance. it would be better to just take out the open brood and make a hive out of that, off course right when the flow starts.

doak · July 11, 2007, 06:58:13 PM

The only time I have ever heard of caging the queen," other than moving or reintroducing her",
Is to decrease the increase in bee population, for the purpose of swarm prevention.
And then it is not highly recomended.
Let the queen lay eggs, give more space, get more honey.
Any disruption does not increase honey yeilds.

I believe in the "old school".
doak

BeeHopper · July 12, 2007, 09:00:22 AM

Are we talking about more honey for US or for them. :?

Mici · July 12, 2007, 09:19:50 AM

Quote from: BeeHopper on July 12, 2007, 09:00:22 AM
Are we talking about more honey for US or for them. :?

well, they never do gather and make honey for us, so primarly it's for them. but, everything we do, is to make sure they gather/make maximum ammount of honey so we can claim it as ours so...first it's more honey for them, so we can steal more honey from them.

limyw · July 12, 2007, 12:02:21 PM

No open brood means less work for workers hence more focus on honey collection, I believe this is true as I observed during new queen making untill when it start to lay eggs, the hive always produce the most honey and cap faster. Add super does not increase the bee density in short period. A break in brood cycle also helpful in reduce varoa.

Holycow · July 12, 2007, 05:42:05 PM

Hmmm, sounds like asking for trouble to me. I guess if you had everything timed exactly right, it mightwork even then,there are many other variables . I suspect if I tried it it would end up the bee equivalent Hurricane Katrina in there.
--Jeff

TwT · July 12, 2007, 06:00:37 PM

ok I will add my 2 pennies worth, I know during a flow a queenless hive will collect more honey, now when the time to take the queen away I am not sure of but I have seen this many times with hives that have gone queenless sometimes during the flow, I have split hives and let the raise there own queen and the queenless split out work the queen right split, dont know why but many times have I seen this.... timing must be perfect but I dont know when it happens, guess I just split at right time but know a queenless hives works harder........

doak · July 12, 2007, 07:12:51 PM

Have you all taken into consideration the amount of honey "not" being used during this period to rear brood.
Where else would they put it than store it. Can you prove they actually "bring in" more nector when less brood is present?
Some time its hard to see forest because of the trees, and v-v.
doak

Mici · July 12, 2007, 07:22:10 PM

Quote from: doak on July 12, 2007, 07:12:51 PM
Have you all taken into consideration the amount of honey "not" being used during this period to rear brood.
Where else would they put it than store it. Can you prove they actually "bring in" more nector when less brood is present?
Some time its hard to see forest because of the trees, and v-v.
doak

i am not sure if anyone even said they bring in more...no actually we did but...you are right. there are multiple factors because of which OUR honey yield increases.
but still....brood eats smaller ammount of honey, you know..primarly brood is fed with pollen and royal gelle..humm but bees eat honey to make royal gelee...

ah well, yes doak, the increased ammount of honey is caused by multiple factors, which all derive from the fact of lack of brood. numerous chain reactions are caused by removing open brood/queen.

doak · July 12, 2007, 07:47:14 PM

I would say if anyone has an over wintered colony, that cannot produce at least one medium super of honey in a season, under normal conditions, if there is any kinda of flow at all, without taking some step like "caging the queen", then they need to consider another strain of bees.
doak

P.S.
The national average use to be 30 to 40 lbs. per colony, per year. I think that was without migrating

BeeHopper · July 12, 2007, 08:08:36 PM

Would a beek using this method to increase honey yield run the risk of injuring or killing the Queen when the time comes to " Cage " her. I would not risk it for any amount of honey, but I can see how the method works. :)

Mici · July 12, 2007, 08:21:06 PM

Quote from: BeeHopper on July 12, 2007, 08:08:36 PM
Would a beek using this method to increase honey yield run the risk of injuring or killing the Queen when the time comes to " Cage " her. I would not risk it for any amount of honey, but I can see how the method works. :)

so does every inspection.

this so called method...is by no chance worth the risk and the time so....except for experimental purposes it's useless.

TwT · July 12, 2007, 08:54:40 PM

I was not saying when to do it but half seen queenless splits out produce queen right splits many times, just the time of pulling a queen and the time of the flow will both matter....... but it can be dont for sure, I believe that just dont know when, to many factors dealing with pulling a queen and adding her back plus timing, splits are best from what I seen....

rdy-b · July 12, 2007, 10:44:11 PM

very interesting theories about this.I have some colonies that I try to get as much honey from as fast as I can and to do this i run them in a single deep and use a excluder.kind of a bigger cage; so I have enough bees to fill two boxes they put ALL THE HONEY UP no extra in brood chamber. these boxes always have beards on the front at night.they always bring in large crops fast. they are on a mission when the flow is on. I dont worry about swarming these bees are for honey production and thats it. this is some ideas so you can get some honey.leave the queen in just manage them to your advantage. RDY-B