How should I place frames to maximize honey

[leominsterbeeman]

I am going to be adding some hives to my beekeeping and was wondering the best way to maximize honey production.  

Assumptions:  
All hives are of equal strength and have fully drawn out
brood chambers.

Hives are in the same location.

Honey Supers will be above brood chambers.
I have 2 hives and 6 medium supers.

I have 30  fully drawn frames

I have 30 frames of foundation only.

D=Drawn Frame  F= Foundation Only frame.


What is the best way to put on frames of drawn and undrawn
foundation. 9 frames or 10 frames? What combo of drawn and undrawn?

D -F -F -D -D -D -F -F -D  - It seems logical to put the drawn frames
                                       in the center
or
F -F -D -D -D -D -D - F -F

or
D -F -D -F -D -F -D -F -D -F - Interleafed?


OR PUT ON TWO SUPERS with foundation above drawn:

F- F- F- F- F- F- F- F- F- F  (10 frames)
D-D-D-D-D-D-D-D-D-D   (9 frames)
BROOD CHAMBERS

OR PUT ON TWO SUPERS with foundation below drawn:

D-D-D-D-D-D-D-D-D-D
F- F- F- F- F- F- F- F- F- F
BROOD CHAMBERS


I'm sure that this can spark a lot of debate, but  remember the goal is to
produce the most honey; please explain your answer.

[Finman]

I am going to be adding some hives to my beekeeping and was wondering the best way to maximize honey production.  

best  way- it means the whole beekeeping skill  :D

BUT fist you must get your colonies to develope well during spring.

Then you must prevent swarming, or at least prevent bees to escape

The honey crop will depend on pastures and weather and how much you have other beekeepers to share pastures.

I use 3 brood boxes. I add  the new brood box lowest to save brood space temperature.

It is good, if bees have in third box  foundations to build. It prevents swarming.

My system is 3 brood Lnagstroth boxes + 3-5 Farrar supers = 6-8 boxes.

When you add honey supers, hive is so big that it will manage with its temperature.

The empty super must be added between honey and brood. It again good to give new foundations.

The lowest brood box is spare room, where bees put pollen exrta honey flow and extra space for bees.

When honey is coming, ventilation must be good , entrance totally open. Bees need extra space where to put eggs and honey to mature.  You must take capped honey away that bees have surely  free space.

Hive is good to be at summer  5-6 boxes. 4 is too few.

That is basic lane.

.

I have 30  fully drawn frames

I have 30 frames of foundation only..

These are enough for one hive, and it is minumum.

.

What is the best way to put on frames of drawn and undrawn
foundation. 9 frames or 10 frames? .

In honey supers I use minus 1 ready frames.

.

It seems logical to put the drawn frames in the center. If you put mixed drawn frames and foundation, bees make bigger the old combs ant that is not good idea. .

Bees do not widden old combs

It is better to put whole box foundation , so  they make them evenly thick.

Brood foundation I put in the middle of larvas.

Not that way;

OR PUT ON TWO SUPERS with foundation above drawn:

F- F- F- F- F- F- F- F- F- F  (10 frames)
D-D-D-D-D-D-D-D-D-D   (9 frames)
BROOD CHAMBERS

D-D-D-D-D-D-D-D-D-D
F- F- F- F- F- F- F- F- F- F
BROOD CHAMBERS

This is best

You can also
D-D-D-D-D-D-D-D-D-D
F- F- F- F- F-D-D-D-D-D
BROOD 3 box

OR
F- F- F- F- F-D-D-D-D-D
BROOD 2-3 box


That system is to prevent swarming fever during early spring.

In the middle of best honey flow you can take queen away for 2 weeks. Without brood bees collect awfully much honey. And you make nuc from queen and a couple of brood frames.

[TwT]

most big time beekeepers i have talked to says use 9 frame's in a 10 frame super, they will hold more honey.

[golfpsycho]

Years ago, when I was micro managing my colonies, I used 9 frames only in the supers.  I also used drone comb in the supers.  Less wax, 1 less frame, same amount of honey.  They overbuild the comb, making the frames easy to uncap.  And the caps and honey that came off with them at extracting time, I saved for myself.   I always thought closest to the caps was the best.  When your working with foundation, you want all ten frames tightly pushed together so they draw them properly.  Otherwise, you can end up with a big mess.  Alternating drawn comb and foundation can sometimes cause problems as well, but it's a good motivator for them to go to work.  I'm still a firm believer that drawn comb is one of our most valuable assets.  Bear in mind, if your adding supers of foundation on top, putting a queen excluder in place is probably going to retard your colonys growth.  Give em room and some nectar, and they will grow and fill it up.
Also, once you decide on a method, and put it into practice, give them a chance to do what bees do.  Every time you dig into the colony to see what's happening, you set them back at least a day.  More if you do any manipulations.

[Finman]

..

You must remember, frames does not bring honey. They are  only space, free or full.
.

[Beth Kirkley]

I agree with things golfpsyco was saying, and this is my opinion off of what I've read or experienced.
1) 9 frames, allowing bees to build the cells out a little farther, from what I understand it makes it easier to uncap and really does get you more honey
2) not to mix new foundation and drawn comb - I've done it, but it can cause problems and make a big mess in the hive - I usually only put new foundation on the outer edge if it's just a few frames
3) drawn foundation in the super above new foundation if I have a whole box worth of new foundation (but I have put new foundation above too)
4) Of course you'll get more honey over all if they have drawn foundation already - less work for the bees

What about giving them the drawn foundation, and the new foundation, but as soon as any honey is capped (ANY) - then take that frame out, harvest the honey, and give back the frame? Sort of like, if you had a warehouse full of stuff, rather than building more storage space, you empty the warehouse - then you have fresh ready space again. It's more work though - for you.

Beth

[Finman]

I do see frames as honey question.

When hive is small, don't put empty frames in the middle of brood. It disturbs brood area temperature.

Also how to give empty box for bees, they say that put it above brood. But to heat the empty space is often shock and bees destroy the lowest larvas.

Enlarging the hive will happen at sping and at early summer. Nights are cold and most beekeepers do not understand the meaning of weather. They look calendar.

Often when I have put foundation near wall, bees enlarge the combs for drones. - bad idea.