Please Help! Pesticide Poisioning , Tracheal Mites or something else ?

BBHJ · June 16, 2007, 08:11:35 PM

O.k first of all this is my first thread that Ive started. I've just been reading alot for a month or so and have learned alot. This Forum is so Awesome and many of you are a big help to me and many others. I'm new to bee keeping and have had my bees for a few months now but have been going to classes/mettings for almost a year now. About a week ago I observed something that was very sad to me, as I love my bees and wish death upon none of them.

About 5 days out of every week I sit and watch the hive that I have in my back yard for 10-60 mins. I've done this since I first got my bees the first week of April. I've watched them grow and become a more productive, higeneic, stronger, & calmer hive. 4 days ago while I was watching them something strange happened. I heard one smack the board with nails in it (to discourage skunks, racoons, ect.) that I have on the ground below the hive entrance. I at first though OUCH! I know that hert, but it could have been worse (the bee could have landed on a nail and speared herself). She imediatley started crawling very fast down the lenght of the board & into the grass. I've seen bees fall onto the ground before when comming out of the hive or trying to fly back in, and after like 30 seconds or sooner they fly off or back into the hive. I was thinking she was going to do that (fly away, or back into the hive) but she kept crawling very fast. I decided to try to help her out and get her back into the hive, thinking she was just knocked silly. She couldnt even stay onto 3 different sizes of sticks without falling off though. Finnally I had to get a 1"x2" scrap piece of board and get her onto the 2" part of it so she wouldn't fall off. During all of this trying to help her out, I'd noticed a few things. #1- She was very disorianated (sp?) but in a big hury to get to where ever she was going (if she even knew herself). She was clumbsy and couldnt stay on larger pieces of grass or sticks (one was about 1" big around) without falling off and sometimes ending up on her back. #2- She couldnt fly although her wings were moving very fast at times when she would get stuck in the grass. #3- She kept taking her front legs and cleaning her mouth. O.k. now that I get her to stay on the stick I put her onto the bottom board at the side of the entrance. She crawled at the edge of the board in the same manner as before (very fast) for about 5" & fell again onto the board of nails. When she hit the board it was the same sound as before, so I know that she come from out of the hive the 1st time instead of returning to the hive after collecting necture. She started doing the same thing all over again. Thats when I realized something else. #4- She was crawling in the exact same direction as before. The direction is SOUTH. Anway I get her on the 1"x2" agian after watching her crawl about 15 feet through the grass pretty much in a straight line, South. Place her back on the entrance board again and guess what? She falls to the board of nails for the 3rd time after crawling the same direction the same way (very fast) for about 4"-6" just like before. I watch her go through the grass for a little ways and decide to try again. Just as I get half way to her I hear another smack the board of nails! When I went over this 2nd bee was crawling in the same manner as the 1st was & even more strange to me IN THE EXACT SAME DIRECTION! SOUTH! Every thing was the same, she was also cleaning her mouth very often with her front legs, couldnt fly, & crawling very fast, but couldnt stay on pieces of grass or sticks smaller than a 1"x2". I was trying to keep my eye on both bees and the 2nd one passed the 1st one up. The 1st bee was hung up in some grass and I guess by now alittle tired. The 2nd bee crawled right past her within a 1/2", thats how close to the same line south they were taking. I got the 2nd bee on the 1"x2" and everything happened just as it had the times before. She fell from the hive entrance for a 2nd time and started crawling in the same line SOUTH very fast. I ended up loosing sight of the 1st bee and I'd placed the 2nd in a small plastic container just to see how long she would live. If she would make it through the night ect. Righ before placing her into the container she stood on her hind legs while still on the stick and started cleaning her mouth again. It was like she was trying to tell me what was wrong because she was looking right at me and we were only like a foot from being face to face. She was turning her head side to side and just kept cleaning her mouth. She done this for about 5 min. before I placed her into the container. It was so sad. I did try to give her water but of corse she didnt want clean fresh water I guess IDK. Anyway I'd left the container out side where I thought it would be safe for the night. Well then we had some strong winds and it blew over with no sign of the bee around the next day. What was wrong with these two bees? Anyone ever seen anything like this before. My money is on tracheal mites but why were they wanting to go SOUTH????? Does it sound like poisioning? Could it be the begining signs of CCD maybe? I've not seen any other bees do anything like this before or since but I'm wondering what should I do? The hive is 1 deep brood box with 3 shallow supers, in which two of the supers are full.
Should I wait untill fall to treat or what ever so I dont loose any honey being this isnt something I'm seeing every day and the hive still seems strong?

doak · June 17, 2007, 01:16:26 AM

First of all, "where is Tyboggie"?
You may have witnessed two bees that has came to the end of their life span. I have observed bees away from the hive that crawl around on the ground and in grass and never get up to fly. Upon closer inspection I see their wings are done for. There is nothing I can do except sqush it or let it go its way.
I have also observed bees coming in for a landing and completly miss the landing board,( runway), and crash onto the ground. They get back in flight and circle the field and try again. I see this a lot.

This is the part I shouldn't say, I don't think I would worry about two bees that much. I know where you are coming from, but you are going to kill "squish" some bees yourself If you are going to be a Bee Keeper. It can't be helped.
If the bee did get something bad, the way you described it, it sounds like she was trying to show the other bees what direction the "danger" was in. If they can show,( by the bee dance) on the inside where the good stuff is then why not the bad on the outside.

You sit and watch your bees more than I do, and I have been at it for seven years.
Or you may be close to where someone is doing the experment on bees about the way alcohol affects them.
or they may have gotten into someone's mash. "This is not a joke".

I hope you find what was wrong with the two.

What you could do is catch about 100 bees in a jar with plain rubbing Alcohol and send them off and have them tested.
But then again if you was that concerned about two bees, how could you do that to 100?
Best of luck and God Bless
doak

BBHJ · June 17, 2007, 02:02:16 AM

Thanks doak.
It isnt so much the fact that 2 bees died. I squash bees everytime I inspect the hive. Its Just the way they were acting, suffering, and that was the sad part. I had already decided that if I see more doing this I would collect them and some others in a jar & send off. The 2 bees didnt look neither old nor young although Its almost imposible to really tell by looking. Their wings ect. looked normal though. Thinking about what you said about them showing the other bees the direction toward the bad makes sense. I'm thinking that may be the reason for them going in the South direction now, because ever since I've got the hive most fly to and come back to the hive from that direction. I think I watch the hive alot because I'm new to beekeeping and the hive is in my back yard. Being beside the hive watching is very relaxing and I think relieves alot of my stress also. After getting home from working the other morning I actually fell asleep for a bit while watching the bees :-D

rdy-b · June 17, 2007, 02:09:13 AM

ya but where in tyboggie is tyboggie :lol:

doak · June 17, 2007, 02:14:21 AM

Sounds ok to me. I make about a half doz. trips a day to take a look at mine.
Between 3:00 pm and sun down I like to watch them taking their orientation flights.
If you don't find any more acting that way I wouldn't worry about it to much.
I have heard a lot about finding worn out dead bees on the ground in front of the hive. I have yet to experence it. Last year I did find the ones the skunk left, but these can be identified easy.
Where is Tyboggie?
doak

Cindi · June 17, 2007, 11:24:52 AM

BBHJ. You do have our curiosity going, where is Tyboggie? What an awesome name for a place. Have a wonderful day, great life, good luck with the bees. Cindi

Kirk-o · June 17, 2007, 12:16:18 PM

O K were is Tyboggie ?
kirko

DayValleyDahlias · June 17, 2007, 12:17:35 PM

Tyboggie? Must be on another planet...look at the Avatar??? hhhhmmmmm

doak · June 17, 2007, 01:00:35 PM

Google it and see what comes up. I did.
doak

DayValleyDahlias · June 17, 2007, 05:07:42 PM

hhhmm not a geographic location...

rdy-b · June 17, 2007, 06:27:15 PM

seams to be off the radar. :lol: those two bees where just exahusted and missed the mark on the landing board.please keep us updated.RDY-B

rdy-b · June 18, 2007, 12:27:48 AM

8-) 8-) 8-)

BBHJ · June 18, 2007, 11:35:13 AM

Quote from: DayValleyDahlias on June 17, 2007, 12:17:35 PM
Tyboggie? Must be on another planet...look at the Avatar??? hhhhmmmmm

;) ;)

Its just a nickname lol. The real name of the place I live, Tyronza, AR.

So far everything seems fine with the hive, still working hard and seems strong. But I'm watching. Everytime I see one fall to the ground I get worried, but so far they end up flying after a few seconds like usuall. I did see something yesterday that made me LOL for a min. I have the hive on concrete blocks, one under each side of the hive. A bee was comming in for a landing and SMACK !!! Well she was a bit too low and flew head first into the block. I saw the whole thing. LOL. You know how some can land like a jet on a runway and not slow down a whole lot untill after they touch down, and then some will slow down and kind of hover for a couple of seconds before landing, well she was like a jet. The great part though is that after about 10 seconds she got up. Tried again, & missed the landing board the second time, but didnt crash. She got it on the third try. Wonder if she learned anything from that experiance? I think I would, cause I know that hurt.

Bennettoid · June 18, 2007, 05:21:20 PM

I constantly watch dying Bees crawl South away from the hive, I don't know why its south, but it seems it always is. I think they have a built in move mode when they realize that they are becoming a burden to the hive.

BBHJ · June 19, 2007, 08:59:15 AM

That makes me feel better Bennettiod that someone else has noticed this also. I guess that the older dying ones' guidence system maybe does tell them to go south. I'm also now guessing that maybe they (or mine atleast) were getting away as fast as possible to get as far away as possible. Maybe to not attract pest of anykind to the hive or something? IDK? Yesterday I did for the first time get to see a bee drag a dead one from the hive. I've seen dead ones around the hive before & on the bottom board ect. but had never actually seen one being removed from the hive by another. The board is 12" wide and ends with about a 6" wide gap in front toward the end of the hives bottom board. So that when the bees fall they dont hit the BOARD OF NAILS :evil: but instead land on the grass just in front of the board. She draged it almost 2 feet total just to the other side of the board. It took like 5 minutes. What took so long was she had to work her way through a maze of nails since she pulled the dead bee onto the board starting out. I could tell she was getting frustrated lol.