Empty frames versus starter strips

Cindi · June 16, 2007, 11:11:28 PM

So much talk about starter strips. What happens if only an empty frame is inserted into the hive body? I saw the bees in the little nuc that I made from one of my colonies draw comb inside the inner frame feeder when it became empty, they drew lovely comb and were beginning to cap the sugar syrup that they had been consuming.

I took out the inner frame feeder and gave them a frame of honey/pollen I had in the freezer (of course thawing it for over 24 hours) and put sound foundation beside that to keep them busy. Have a wonderful day, great life. Cindi

DayValleyDahlias · June 16, 2007, 11:23:15 PM

Cindi, I was curious about that as well...I wonder how it all works?

Cindi · June 16, 2007, 11:25:09 PM

Sharon, there has been much talk on the forum about it, lots, but I don't know if this question was ever addressed. Let's listen and learn. Great life. Cindi

Kathyp · June 16, 2007, 11:25:48 PM

it worked fine. i had some starter strips that came loose. i removed the strips and left the frames. they drew out some great comb. seems they have been really slow this year, and i'm a little disappointed at the overall build up, but i'll not blame that on starter strips this year. they are slow all around.

JP · June 16, 2007, 11:34:26 PM

I added a medium super atop another medium, atop two deeps, last spring. This one hive drew out the medium with plasticell, but didn't do anything in the top medium. I didn't realize it at the time I added the top medium that it was foundationless. I guess starter strips would be the way to go. By the way this is a strong hive.

likes2grill · June 17, 2007, 09:54:31 AM

I use empty frames all the time and they draw them out just fine. I started out using starter strips then I got to thinking, what do they use in the wild? So I put in empty frame then one with a started strip and both where built out the same. It didn't make a difference on the speed that they are drawn out.

Cindi · June 17, 2007, 10:26:36 AM

Dan, that is what I was wondering. It appears to me that putting in starter strips can be a big pain in the butt. Hmmm. Have a wonderful day, great life. Cindi

Kirk-o · June 17, 2007, 12:31:12 PM

You can go to Mochael Bush's site and read about foundationless frames.Also Charles Martin Simmon has written about foundationless frames.Charles also used to sell and make foundationless frames
kirko

Michael Bush · June 17, 2007, 01:37:47 PM

>So much talk about starter strips. What happens if only an empty frame is inserted into the hive body?

If you put it between two drawn brood frames you get a perfect comb. If you put a box full of them on for supers it looks like this:

http://www.beesource.com/pov/simon/comb.jpg

Cindi · June 17, 2007, 02:53:58 PM

Michael!!! You have gotta be kidding!!! What a mess....have a wonderful day, great life. Cindi

Kathyp · June 17, 2007, 03:07:30 PM

i bought a glass syringe from ebay....that's what we used to use at work :-(, now they are listed as "antiques".....and i used it to put the melted wax into the grove holding the strip. the disadvantage is that it will clog if you leave it out of the hot wax, but the big advantages are that it CAN be left in the hot wax and it's not messy to use.

Brian D. Bray · June 17, 2007, 10:28:20 PM

If you want you can do what I've decided to do: Cut off the cleat and tack it on sideways. It forms a ridge along where the wax grove would be and makes one side 1 row more of cells. Bees work it fine.

BTW, all of my hives were started on starter strips this year and I've had very little wild comb being created as they draw it out. I had 5 frames of deep Plastic foundation I got a long time ago from Mann Lake for use in a nuc and had never used. I sprayed it with sugar syrup and put a package of bees on it. I've having a lot more trouble with bridge and wild comb from the plastic stuff than all of the 3 hives of starter strips combined. Where the strips have slipped out of the grove the bees have gone ahead and built comb just like they have the rest of it. That why I've decided to go with waxless frames.

Michael Bush · June 17, 2007, 11:06:07 PM

>I've having a lot more trouble with bridge and wild comb from the plastic stuff than all of the 3 hives of starter strips combined.

Exactly.

Cindi · June 20, 2007, 12:04:41 AM

Yep, tomorrow morning I have another question about the starter strips, and plastic foundation. Great day, great life. Cindi

the kid · June 20, 2007, 12:46:56 AM

This year I got a nuc with one plastic frame ... the girls build bur comb only on top of that frame.. I want to try plastic frames but dont like the bur on it ... do they bur comb plastic more then wood ... makes it hard to pull the top frames when they bur them together .
the kid

Ross · June 20, 2007, 10:21:38 AM

Michael forgot to add that you can cure that problem by giving them a guide. You can glue in a popcicle stick or bevel the top bar like I do. Then you can give them a whole box of frames, although it's best to put one drawn in the middle. I use frames like the middle one in the picture below.
http://www.myoldtools.com/Bees/frames/sled5.jpg

Cindi · June 20, 2007, 10:29:43 AM

the kid. Lots of people use the plastic frames and like it. I don't. I find the bees are very reluctant to draw it out, even when I spray sugar syrup on it. Good luck. Cindi