Unbelievable, not poisoning, starvation

[Cindi]

Holy crow, I am almost embarassed to tell the tale of the reason for all the dead bees with my hives.  I have been and am learning so many lessons with my bees.  Any hard lessons have unfortunately been to the detriment of the hives.  These have been some pretty hard lessons to learn, but we all learn from our mistakes.  This was human error, these myriad of bees dying, not poisoning, I am so sorry to tell this tale.

I went out yesterday, I am so glad it was very warm and sunny, and spent hours working with the bees.  I thought it would be a short trip to clean up all the bees that I thought were poisoned.  But I had lots and lots of work that needed to be done after what I saw.

I cleaned up all the bees on the landing board and around the hive and then opened the hive and looked in.  There were alot of bees still alive in the hive.  Lots.  So I picked up the colony and moved it to sit on top of the inverted lid.  The bottomboard inside had a pile of bees so big I stood there agast.  I cleaned up all these bees, gave a new bottomboard and put the 2 boxes back on a clean, new bottomboard.  Then I proceeded to look through each comb.

There was not a speck of food in either of the two boxes.  Eee gads!!!!!!!  There were hundreds of bees with the abdoment sticking out of the comb, obviously trying to get the very last speck of honey into their poor tiny little bodies, all dead.  Dead bees all over the combs, so sad, so sad.

I quickly sprayed all the bees in both boxes with my solution of sugar syrup that I keep on hand to spray the bees with to keep them calm.  This gave the bees that were alive a quick fix of food until I could get an inner frame feeder full of sugar syrup for them.

I put the inner cover and lid back on and went to my house to make sugar syrup.  I came back to the apiary and fed this colony.  Time will tell how much of a loss of the bee population, but it was high, let me tell you. 

I saw eggs in this colony, I could not find the queen, but she was there in the past 3 days, I know that for sure.  I know that when bee colonies starve, the queen is the last to go, so I am pretty much assured that she is in there.  She probably is not feeling too good, her food has been diminished too, but she will perk up, as all this colony of sad bees will.

I checked through all the other colonies, most were gathering nectar and storing it, and still had some honey reserves left.  But I fed them anyways, just in the case that they may need it.  I will observe in a few days and see if they have taken any sugar syrup, but I doubt it, they looked pretty good.

I have no clue why this colony, that was so big, starved.  It makes no sense to me, but it occurred.  Nevertheless.  Unquestionable.

The little nuc that I had made from my overwintered colony is going great guns, they are expanding quickly and I am so happy.  I have them a baggie feeder of sugar syrup.  They are bent on drawing comb inside the inner frame feeder, so I took it out and gave them:

Guess what!!!!

A plastic Pierco frame with a one inch starter strip that my husband had worked on yesterday for me.  He made me 10 of these.  They look cool.  It was some work he said, but they will perform the same way that the wooden frames that have the one inch starter strip fastened to.  These bees are very obviously in comb building mode, so they can build comb to their hearts' content in this empty frame.  I am very curious about how long it will take them to draw it out.

I will bring some pictures into the forum tomorrow, today I slept in.  I needed to recover from my little trip to my daughter's house and the trauma of yesterday with the bees, sleep heals so much of the human soul.

Anyways, lessons learned, over and over.  My advice too my friends on this forum that are new to beekeeping (and ones that have been keeping bees for awhile too, I have been now 2 years with the bees and this was a new aspect of beekeeping that I have not come across before).  Always keep a good watch on whether the bees have enough food or not.

I keep excellent records of my beekeeping, written in my bee journal.  It gives me a chance to keep my handwriting honed.  I have a beautiful pen hand and sometimes there is so much computer stuff, that these skills long pass by the wayside. 

I am of the strong opinion that I took away the sugar syrup that I was feeding the nucs and packages when I got them too soon.  There obviously was not enough natural resources coming in yet for the bees.

It is too bad, because this past weekend's rain has brought on so many nectar producing flowers on my property.  The borage and phacelia, not to mention others that are coming on, are in full swing.  This nectar source will continue throughout the summer, until frost kill. Just wish they would have begun blooming a couple of weeks earlier.

All these hard, sad, lessons learned.  But on the brighter side, these hard knocks are all making me a better beekeeper, with lots of learning experiences all the time.  Everyone have a wonderful and great day.  Do love this life we're livin'.  Cindi

[Kathyp]

at least you figured it out.  last year i lost a hive because i didn't realize they were queenless and this year i have a hive failing, but no clue why.  they have food, a queen, and have been powder sugared.  even so, i had to pull the second super off today.

don't beat yourself up.  you are learning and catching problems as you go.

i am surprised that starvation would be the cause. are you past blackberries?

[tillie]

I'm just relieved for you that it was something you could DO something about.  Poisoning from a neighbor using pesticide is a whole different ball game.  At least you can feed the bees.  What a relief!

Linda T in Atlanta

[Dane Bramage]

Hi Cindi,

That really is a shocker eh?  I would have never expected a starve-out this time of year (my new hives are building up crazy fast, even getting some surplus already). 

When was the last time you did a frame inspection?  You mentioned that you verified the queen was there 3 days prior (did you inspect frames at this time?).  I'm just curious how much time is required for the bees to noticeably eat through their reserves, not to mention eating thru 100% and start dying out.  I've been conducting weekly inspections on my hives but have lately not gone down to the bottom brood chamber and pulled any frames.. maybe just one here and there as they look all packed from the top and the upper brood chambers (& supers) look great.  I don't want to unduly disturb the bees but also want to make sure they're doing well.  I guess if they are building up comb, surplus, etc., they couldn't be doing bad right?  Is there something else that could have caused that hive to starve out? :? It seems a dearth would affect all your hives somewhat equally.   Confusing and concerning!

Hope the bees recover 100% for you!

Regards,
Dane

[KONASDAD]

Maybe they were robbed . You might be able to tell if the few capped cells present were "ripped" open. Robbers leave messy cell caps on bottom board as they are in a rush and just force the door open and steal. Just a thought.

[imabkpr]

cindi
Its very easy to over populate an area with bees. The very strong colonies need as much or more attention as the weaker ones.

When you go into your bee yard have a routine. The first thing i do is test weight the colony, pick up on the right rear corner of the bottom brood chamber. Try tipping it to the left, not forward, this will give an indication of colony weight.

Watch your nectar flow.  Also watch your pollen flow.  Its possible to have a brood chamber full of honey, brood and bees, Its also possible to have a brood chamber full of pollen, brood and bees. Learn to tell whats coming in.  Charlie

[DayValleyDahlias]

Oh gosh, one more thing to worry about...hhhhmmmm :(

[rdy-b]

Hi Cindi, am so glad you where able to get to the bottom of the problem. see I told you ,I didnt think you did wrong. ;) now you must be careful with spilling the syrup or those pesky Ants will return,but you have a cure for them dont you :lol: RDY-B

[Cindi]

cindi
Its very easy to over populate an area with bees. The very strong colonies need as much or more attention as the weaker ones.
When you go into your bee yard have a routine. The first thing i do is test weight the colony, pick up on the right rear corner of the bottom brood chamber. Try tipping it to the left, not forward, this will give an indication of colony weight.
Watch your nectar flow.  Also watch your pollen flow.  Its possible to have a brood chamber full of honey, brood and bees, Its also possible to have a brood chamber full of pollen, brood and bees. Learn to tell whats coming in.  Charlie

I don't know what to address first.  But Dane, I will comment on one of your comments.  I only knew the queen was present three days earlier because I saw the eggs when I looked inside the starving colony.  I had done inspections on all colonies regularly.

What I obviously did not check for was the food supply.  Rather ridiculous if you ask me.  I was on the search each time to ensure that the queens were laying and so on.  Never, ever, ever, once did it cross my mind to search for food.  I assumed that the bees were getting enough from nature.  Good reminders to beekeepers eh?

This was the only colony that had issues with low food.  The others still had pollen/honey frames present that I had given them previously from my stored food in the freezer from the collapsed colonies last year.

That I am guessing and I am prettty sure that this is accurate.  This colony was huge.  There was 1/2 ice cream pail of dead bees.  When I went back to feed them sugar syrup (I had reduced them back down to one brood chamber before I made the sugar syrup), the colony was still pretty full of bees, covering about 7 frames.  I was surprised, but that was the numbers, so I know this colony expanded quickly.  I know that there will be more bees pulled out of the hive because I saw all the poor dead bees on the comb with their bums sticking out into the air, trying to get the last speck of nourishment. 

Right, got sidetracked.  I think that maybe this colony did not get as much of my freezer honey/pollen frames as the others and plain and simply did not have enough food.  All the other colonies (even my nuc I made from my overwintered colony) are brining in nectar, I saw it in the cells.

There may be a chance that the colony was robbed, but I did not see any signs of the "mess" that robbers make.  This colony was so big, I would wonder how robbers could have got access.  BUT.....that could be a possible cause too, I would imagine.  I observe the hives for long periods of time.  I haven't seen any signs of robbers, I know full well what those little creepies look and act like.  I had that last year and the year before with a couple of colonies.  BUT....I fixed their wagons!!!!!

Our blackberry flow is just beginning.  Has been going now for about a week.  Prior to that there were lesser flows, nothing too big. I thought that there was enough of a flow going on that no colony would need food.  Well, that is OK, because next year I will be very aware of what is going on in nature, even more than I know this year.  This year has been a horrible year for the PNW for nectar flow.

Bee C works for our mentor, whom we took courses from.  He runs about 1,200 colonies.  Bee C helped hiim with his blueberry pollination.  Get this.  Out of 100 hives in the fields, there was only one box of honey.  Now that is actually very very bad.  That goes to show how strange this season is.

Charlie, your advice is excellent.  I will listen and learn.  I think the most difficult thing to understand about colony weight is, what should the weight feel like?  But I guess that takes patience and time to get this right down pat.  I have the patience and the time and I will hone this skill.  Listening, learning.

I can tend to beat myself up pretty bad sometimes.  But then I get over it and thank the lucky stars that I know I have learned a good lesson(s).

This is an interesting little ditty.  When we were at our beekeepers meeting the end of April, we had a queen breeder come and speak to us.  He keeps bees in the city.  New Westminster actually.  It is a good sized city, close to Vancouver.  He told us that he gets about 200 pounds of honey per colony.  He loves to keep his bees "in the small city" because of this.  He says that all the people that keep so many gardens, provide so much nectar and pollen that he surpasses most of the beekeepers that don't have access to these incredible sources of nectar.  Isn't that an interesting little thing eh?

We are coming heavy into the blackberry flow now.  The seeds from my annuals that self-seeded are coming on like wildfire too.  These are very heavy nectar/pollen producing plants.  Summer is fast on its way, with the wealth of food for the bees.

Come the middle of July will be blooming a couple of hundred annise hyssop (annual and perennial).  This (among so many of my "bee" plants) that, with all the grace of the skies above, will provide huge amounts of food for my bees.  MY canary creeper vines are enormous now, and getting bigger by the day, probably growing about 6-8 inches a day.  These are intense vines, that have thousands and thousands of little yellow canary shaped flowers that the bees go nuts on.

My sister's gardens are looking wonderful too.  The many tomatoes and cucumbers that are in our greenhouses are coming on full with blooms too.  Yeah!!!!  I have the great aspirations of plenty of food for all the colonies (and the other pollinators that love our place too!

Well, this has become rather long winded, seems that is my nature.  Have a wonderful day, great life, beautiful life.  Cindi

[Kathyp]

cindy, you are right about this being a bad year.  it has looked like there was plenty out there, but my bees were empty of food until the blackberries.  they were ok.  they used all that they brought in for brood rearing and were to going great guns at that. 

live and learn.  i should have fed longer also.  the bees will be ok, but i'll get little or no honey.  they'll need what they are brining in for winter.

[Dane Bramage]

Thanks for the reply Cindi.  I was actually hoping you had not checked the frames for food recently because, if you had, it would mean that they starved out super fast!  :shock:  Thanks for relaying your experience.  It is a good word of caution methinks.

Regarding the season in PNW, there must be "micro-climates" of pollen, nectar in almost every region I suspect.  Again, I don't have previous seasons with which to compare, but this season has been ROCKING for my hives.  I only fed the first 5 hives at the beginning of spring, at that was one pollen patty and 16oz of 1:1 sugar syrup 1 time.  I had read and anticipated that I would not likely get any surplus the first year, yet I'm already seeing capped honey in the supers. There is just such a plethora of flow going on in my wetlands and adjacent areas here... I think I'm going to have to attempt to compile a list.  There are so many sources and so many flowers I don't know the names for.  Perhaps if I take some photos and poll the forum I could determine some of those unknowns.   I think my locale is also benefiting from the same gardens scenario as your queen breeder beek shared.

I digress but, point being - I'm suspecting that every location is unique and requires "custom" management with a keen eye for those changing seasonal characteristics as well.  Once supplemental feeding is started one must keep feeding until the flow is on and be prepared to restart with any dearth(s).

Thanks again!

[doak]

Reminder, It is very easy to let the foodsource run low in the spring before a good flow gets going.
This is when the colony is rearing brood like a goldrush boom town. Sometime there will not be enough out there for them.
2 years ago My mentor and I lost some from starvation.
Makes you feel bad but these things will happen.
Been there, done that.
doak

[Michael Bush]

This has been a very strange year.  I had to feed last fall in spite of not taking a drop of honey off, and I had to feed this spring up until a week ago as there was hardly any flow.  Queen rearing has been abysmal with no flow they keep tearing down queen cells and the queens don't seem to want to go out and mate, and when they do they often don't come back.

I think there is something strange going on with the weather.  It was our wettest spring ever, and yet no nectar.

[Cindi]

Doak, I honestly was shocked when I saw this starvation of this colony.  When I first saw the bees, I thought that it was the poisoning, like the one previously with the ant death food.  Mistakes. 

I am fully aware of what starvation looks like, not up and personal, but from training. My first experience with starvation.  There is no other symptom that is to universal, I am sure.  Lessons learned, lessons to not be repeated.  I am a perfectionist in many things, this is a quality that I work hard at.  But....many times I fail.  All is well.

Yes, as Michael said, this has been a rather odd year.  All have a wonderful day, great life, gotta love this life we're all living'.  Cindi