Robbing and queenless

tillie · August 11, 2007, 02:10:15 PM

My queenless small swarm hive had been robbed out. Last week I added a full frame of honey and some brood frames from two hives. Today when I opened the hive to decide about whether or not to order a queen for them, I found that wax moths were in the hive and the frame of honey I added last week had been completely robbed out - no honey at all and no stores in the hive.

This week I, glutton for punishment, added more brood frames and another frame of honey. I secured a robber screen and stuffed the side openings with grass (it's a 10 frame deep box robber screen on this 8 frame medium hive.) I closed the entrance as best I could under the robber screen.

There are bees everywhere and it is being robbed again. It has been 103 every day here for the last three days with no rain and we are in a dearth.

My thought is rather than requeen this hive, I'll combine it with another very small hive that I have. My question is this:
The hive I want to combine it with also may be queenless. They had a queen cell almost ready to open last week when I checked on Saturday.

If I combine the small swarm hive with a small hive that may have a very new queen, is that a problem?

I'll do a newspaper combine if that's what you all think I should do. If not, I really don't know how to handle the small swarm hive that is so done in by all the robbing for two weekends in a row. I guess I could combine them with one of my three very strong hives using newspaper.

What do you think?

Linda T in Atlanta

Michael Bush · August 11, 2007, 03:10:16 PM

If you're trying to boost a robbed hive with a lot of new bees it's probably worth moving it at the same time since the robbers will check back from time to time.

A combine will work fine.

tillie · August 11, 2007, 04:51:10 PM

The hive I'm hoping to combine this robbed hive with just had an about-to-emerge queen cell on Aug 4. The queen should have emerged and may be off mating or back from that flight - I haven't opened that hive, but would like to add these bees to it.

Will it be OK to combine them with a hive that is in the end of the process of raising a new queen?

Linda T in Atlanta

Michael Bush · August 11, 2007, 05:30:48 PM

>Will it be OK to combine them with a hive that is in the end of the process of raising a new queen?

I think they should do fine as long as the new queen can still fly while the combine is occuring.

tillie · August 12, 2007, 10:13:51 AM

This morning I'm planning to combine but I waked up to find that the robbing is still going on.

Should I wait until the robbing has stopped?
Will the robbers follow the hive if I move the box to the combining hive while robbing is going on?
What if I move one frame at a time to a new box at the combining hive?

Linda T in Atlanta

Michael Bush · August 12, 2007, 12:34:50 PM

> * Should I wait until the robbing has stopped?

If you wait for the robbing to stop they will all be dead.

> * Will the robbers follow the hive if I move the box to the combining hive while robbing is going on?

Maybe.

Close the entrance with #8 hardware cloth now. Wait for the robbers to stop trying to get in. Open up just enough for one bee at a time to get in and out. Wait until dark and close the hive being robbed up with #8 screen. Wait in the morning until the robbers give up and leave (if any show up it should take about an hour or so). Then move it and combine.

tillie · August 12, 2007, 04:37:02 PM

OK, so here's where we are - the hive was full of robbers - they had this ingenious system going passing the honey through the screened bottom board to waiting hoarders below the hive. They were massed in the hive - they may have eliminated all of the resident bees, but I think the residents were clustered at one side of the hive, not trying to defend it. On the other side was the frame of honey they were stealing absolutely covered with bees.

I took off the robber screen and closed the hive completely with screen wire:

There was one entry hole on the upper side. It was as if someone had yelled "FIRE" and nobody knew where the fire escape was. Finally the bees started to find the opening and leave one by one. Interestingly no bee tried to go back in:

I got over enthusiastic and realize that when I left I had closed all the entry ways - I'll go open the one corner again. Meanwhile, I blocked the openings to the SBB with bricks and hopefully this activity will cease. Tonight I'll completely close it again.

I can't open it or do the combine until tomorrow afternoon at 1:30, so I may when I leave for work in the morning, open the outside corner again.

Linda T a desperate bee-haver in Atlanta

Mici · August 12, 2007, 06:58:07 PM

have...sort of similar issues and asking for advice.
a hive was a robber, now it's the weakest and guess what, it's being robbed. what can i do?

Bee1 · August 13, 2007, 02:00:29 PM

tillie.. this is wildâ€¦ . I'm getting anxious just reading about the robbing going on at your hive! I never would of thought bees would be passing honey through a screened bb â€" what cooperation! You are a great teacher....I'm learning and living vicariously by following your bee adventures. Are you as much fun in person? If you (or for that matter, any of you wonderful beekeeprs) are ever coming to durham nc and would like to take a peek into my hive I would be happy to have you stop by.

Bee1 --

tillie · August 13, 2007, 02:45:01 PM

I left the hive closed up all night and this morning it is apparent that the robbers left a cadre inside the hive. Today they are passing stolen honey through the screen wire in front of the hive. I guess I have to open up a one-bee-sized opening, but this is a terrible situation.

Linda T concerned in Atlanta

PS Bee1, my sister lives in Chapel Hill and I do make trips your direction - would love to meet you next time I'm up that way.

annette · August 13, 2007, 07:32:37 PM

When you closed up the hive with the screen, did you wait until dark so the robber bees went back to their hives??? I was just curious how so many robber bees ended up left inside the hive.

I am learning from your experiences, as well. Good Luck with this.

Annette

tillie · August 13, 2007, 07:45:29 PM

Yes, I closed it up at 9:30 PM when it was dark, dark, dark. I'm not altogether sure the bees this morning were robbers, but this is a hive with small population, no queen, and there were lots of bees at the screened off entrance today at 1 PM. I decided to delay the combine until I have the robbing in a better position, i.e. it stops happening!

Linda T always with bee problems in Atlanta

PS this happens to other people, right? lots of bee problems - it's just that I post all of mine??? I hope, I hope, I hope that I am not alone in this and a terrible beekeeper, but that others run into these things too.

annette · August 13, 2007, 09:34:57 PM

Now, don't get paranoid. You have been a very successful beekeeper and an inspiration to many people here on this forum and your own blog. Yes, you have had many problems and you share them, which is great because we can learn from other people's trials and tribulations with the bees. You have tried many new things (meaning adding the foundationless frames and catching the swarm etc.) This shows you are a fearless person and not afraid to take risks. You have had many successes and I still refer to your videos and totally followed your wax tube fastener video and had great success with introducing my starter strips.

I feel like I had so many things go wrong also this year, but learned so much.
The problems with beekeeping seem to be ongoing. I am grateful when I have a stretch of time when things are ok, but this hobby is not as easy as I was told by the beekeeper who turned me on to it. Constant surprises.

Sometimes you win, sometimes you lose with the bees. I am also trying hard to detach more from them. I do what I need to do with much love, but the rest of the time I do not want to worry about them. I became consummed with thinking about them and really suffered for it. I hope you understand what I am saying. Be gentle with yourself

Sincerely
Annette

LocustHoney · August 13, 2007, 09:53:53 PM

Tillie...I am the one who has had to fight robbing so much. You have only had one hive. I had several in a 2 week span!!!!! I tried EVERYTHING. The ONLY thing that worked was to MOVE the hive. Not to the other side of the yard. I mean MOVE the darn thing. If you don't they WILL find it again. You will want to try to trap as many bees inside as you can due to the fact they have probably killed most of the others. Robber bees (to me) will rebuild that hive very fast because they are so agressive. They have done mine also. Mu advice to prevent robbing is to STAY OUT OF YOUR HIVES!!!!! In a dearth if you nick ANY amount of honey or uncap one cell of honey it WILL set it off. I speak from experience. So far robbing is the part about beekeeping that I absolutely HATE :evil:. They become so vicious it makes you want to spank some bee hiney!!! :-x Bees are very agressive when they rob. Don't make the mistake of playing with them in a dearth. You will lose hives!!! Good luck. I thought I was the only one who had robbing bees.

Bee1 · August 13, 2007, 10:46:10 PM

Where did I read about covering a hive with a wet (white sheet for a couple of days to trap the robber bees inside and stop the robbing behavior... Has anyone heard about this or tried it? the idea is that the sheet goes all the way to the ground around the hive ... keeping the bees from coming or going for a few days..

Bee1 -- curious...

tillie · August 13, 2007, 10:56:14 PM

Last year when I built my robber screens because of robbing, I read a post on Beesource where the poster said when robbing happens to open all the hives and leave the tops off for a while. The robbers have to return to defend their now opened to the world hive and will leave the hive they are robbing alone!

Linda T in Atlanta

annette · August 13, 2007, 11:28:06 PM

Beekeeping for Dummies book. He says to cover the hive with a wet sheet down to the ground. He says the robber bees will not be able to get into the hive, but the bees inside the hive will find there way out. Believe me Linda I would try this method to stop a bad robbing situation. I would try anything. My only problem here is, it is so hot that the sheet would dry up so fast. Have you tried to spray something called liquid smoke on them?? That is also mentioned in that book.

Annette

Scadsobees · August 14, 2007, 09:16:27 AM

A sprinkler on the victim hive can work too.

Rick

Bee1 · August 14, 2007, 10:14:30 AM

Ah, yes BeeKeepers for Dummies is my sourceâ€¦

I like the idea of a sheet or a sheet and a sprinkler. Just ignore the heat for the time being, consider â€œRe: Old Timer Beekeeper uses no ventilationâ€. Sounds like the bees can handle heat, at least for a short duration.

However, Tillie, I believe your hives are on a deck so you may have to improvise a ground sheet too, so the bees couldn't just come and go between the deck boards.

Bee1