Need Help Quick!!!

[annette]

All my beekeeping buddies here please help!!

Checked the hive today that had superceded the queen. No evidence of any brood, larva or eggs. I even took digital photos and blew them up on my computer and could not see anything or not really sure as the photos came out good but not great.

Anyway, I was really surprised that there was nothing except bees, pollen and honey and lots of empty cells. They were festooning on many frames which gave the appearance that they were doing good.

I am perplexed because the hive truly, truly acts like they have a queen. They are extremely vibrant, bringing in lots of food and they look like healthy bees. When my other hive went queenless, I knew it because they acted very low key.

I noticed the open supercedure cells on September 20. This is a little over 2 weeks. We had much cooler weather than usual during this time with some rain and nites into the 40's. Perhaps she had trouble mating during this time.

Is it possible that I still have a virgin queen roaming around after 2 weeks??

Should I try to introduce a mated queen if I can even purchase one this late in the year??

Not sure what to think. I was extremely shook up today by this and a little depressed over it. So late in the year to have this trouble.


Annette

[Cindi]

Annette, I hear your plight.  I think that your bees are going into the winter time, this is usual for the bees to prevent the queen from laying.  They don't want a whole bunch of brood to look after when they are attempting to cluster to keep warm.

I wouldn't doubt that you have a queen that is just not laying because the bees are preventing her.  Your hives have been doing great, I remember that, you have told us so.  After the winter cooling time has started to warm up again, the bees will get the queen going again.  I think that more than likely you are just experiencing the winter time shut down of brood laying. 

If she was mated (and likely she was), she is impregnated and will release her eggs when she is allowed.

I know when I checked all my colonies a few days ago, there was no eggs, no larvae, in two colonies I saw maybe a frame and a half of capped brood, that was probably going to emerge soon.  I don't expect to see any queen laying eggs now, they are ready for their winter shutdown, trying to keep their little world warm, without the worry of keeping brood warm.  They are in the self-preservation mood, and that is cluster and warmth.  You will hear more comments from our forum friends, but I surely do believe that things will be OK.  Good luck, we are all entering this winter shut down (well most us us except Brendan, hee, hee, he has summer all year round)  :) ;) :(  Have a great day, girl, best of this life.  Cindi

[annette]

Cindi

Don't you think it strange that there wasn't any brood anywhere. Not even a small amount anywhere? My intuition tells me that I have a queen, but my mind tells me that I do not.

[Cindi]

Annette, I don't know or understand exactly your climate.  But I examined 7 colonies the other day and saw absolutely no sign of any brood, eggs, larvae, notta, only that couple of colonies which would have had brood hatching, and then no more.  So, I would have to say, that if you have a winter shutdown anything similar to mine here, that is normal.  But again, wait and see, I could be right off the wall as far as comparison between your area and mine.  Have this wonderful day, Annette, take care.  Cindi

[annette]

When I found the supercedure cells torn open it was September 20. We then had very cool weather that last 2 weeks (I mean in the high 60's day with some rain,with some days reaching low 70's. The nights have gone down to low 40s the past 2 weeks, so maybe the new virgin queen had trouble mating? Or because of the cooler nights, they have prevented her from laying.

Now the weather will go back up to the higher 70's for a few weeks, they say,  which is more normal. The nights will go down to 50"s.

Is it possible to even purchase queens now???? Should I just wait until next week and look again???

Thanks
Annette

[Robo]

Annette,

Don't take this as an "I told you so",  but what you are now experiencing is exactly the experiences that turned me off to supercedure queens in the Fall, and what I tried to convey in earlier posts.

About the only thing you can do now is add a frame of eggs from another hive and see if they start making queen cells and then try to get a mated queen and introduce her. There is the chance that she never made it back from her mating flight or that they killed her for the same reason they superceded the mother queen, though less likely. 

I guess there is also the chance that she is there (if they don't try and make queen cells) and the hive has shut down brood rearing for the season.  I would still be concerned of her viability though,  you will not have any indication until Jan-Feb at which time you will have no options for a replacement if it turns out she was not mated.

I did a cut-out last weekend that had only capped brood and I was unable to find the queen. I gave them a frame of eggs from another hive and they have not started queen cells, so I am assuming they are queen-right at this point and not risking a mated queen.

[Michael Bush]

Unfortunately this is the time of year that the queen may not lay or may stop laying because of the shortening of the days.  So no eggs doesn't really mean anything one way or the other.  Do they still have a lot of drones?  This would be an indicator of no queen.  Do they have a nice patch of cells cleaned out in the middle of the cluster?  This is a good indicator that they have a queen and expect her to possibly start laying.  The lack of a space for her to lay, unfortunately, doesn't mean anything as they may be preventing her from laying by putting something in the cells.  Do you have another hive that still has brood?  A frame of open brood with eggs would insure that they could start a queen if they are queenless,which would indicate they are queenless.

[TwT]

if she hatched sept.20 and you been having some bad weather, you can still have a queen in the hive, I had one that didn't start laying until mid third week after hatching,

there is only one person I know of said he was going to have queens until mid October, Dann Purvis, give him a call, he likes to ship on Tuesdays....

http://web.mac.com/dannpurvis/iWeb/Purvis%20Brothers%20Bees.com/Home.html

[annette]

Thank you all for the responses. I will call the Sacramento Beekeeping Store tomorrow when they open and see if they have any queens. I just called Dann Purvis also and left a message for him to call me back. I also just called B. Weaver apiaries and they have queens available out of Texas. Anyone know anything about B. Weaver Queens?????

This afternoon I will try to introduce a frame of brood and eggs from another hive (my only other hive) but I never can see the darn eggs. (I can usually find the queen in this hive because she is marked and so I will try to find her and introduce the frame she is walking around on)

I will let you all know how things are going. I am feeling nervous, but this feeling isn't new regarding the bees.

Annette

[Kathyp]

be sure you really don't have a queen.  i did my last hive check about a week ago.  i found some capped brood in each hive, but no larva or eggs.  our temps have really dropped and the rain is here.  i know you are warmer during the day, but i bet your nights are getting pretty cold. that, and the short days, may have your queen not laying 'til spring.

[TwT]

to see if you have a queen in the hive, just put a frame of eggs and young larva in the hive you have questions about, wait 3 days and see if they are drawing out cells, if not you have a queen, now when this queen was hatched did you have drones in the hive or the other hives, she might not been able to mate.......then you will need a queen, its bad when you order a queen and have one in the hive already, just a waist of money.....

[annette]

I have decided to just introduce a frame of brood with young larva and wait it out. I will not purchase any queens right now as I am taking the advice of many good beekeepers here. I just hope and pray that I pick the right brood frame to insert into the hive as I can never see the eggs. Wish me well

Thank you all and I will let you know how it turns out.

Annette

[cindi2]

Annette, good luck, I really hope things work out well in your beeyard escapades!!!  Yeah, have a great day, greatest of life.  Cindi

[annette]

Are you the same Cindi I know???

[Cindi]

Annette, dear girl, yep that is me, had to try out using my alternate for one dumb reason that was error on my part.  Fixed it myself (with the prompting of Robo) and Cindi2 has gone by the wayside, again.  I have had issues with things on the forum that have all been my fault and I have had to have an alternate account to use until the problems were rectified, so if you ever see Cindi2, that is me, just me.  Have a great and wonderful day, love our life we live.  Cindi

[ElDoBill]

Annette, I have been out of town for a week and haven't checked my hive for a week or two prior to leaving.  I will check when I get home next weekend but that will be too late to be of much use to you.  They pushed the drones out of my hive about 3 weeks ago.  I think the length of daylight hours along with lower temps is what triggers the behavior rather than temps alone.

[annette]

To update everyone here, yesterday I introduced 2 frames of brood which, I believe, had eggs on them. Saw many larva in different sizes, from very , very small to larger. I could not see eggs, but with such small larva and what looked like many watery empty cells close by, I believe there must be some eggs on these frames.

Now we are heading into our winter weather, all of a sudden, so this should be a challenge as to whether or not they will need to make a queen, if she will ever get mated properly, and if I shall ever see any brood or larva before I cannot open the hive anymore.

Wish me well, I feel I have done all that I can.

I had noticed that there werent to many drones either in the hive.

Sincerely,
Annette from now 60's and rainy Placerville.

[pdmattox]

annette, I think you did all you can do at this point in the game and you will have to let them decide thier next step.  hope you can get some more warm weather so you can check again.

[gottabee]

Annette,
I have a similar situation from my last two new queens. I suspect the the length of daylight hours may be the determining factor as to whether my queens begin to lay. The workers have cleaned out many cells for here to begin laying. Two years ago I had the same issue with late season queens and I introduced fresh brood frames and constantly fed to entice the queen to lay. The queens did not lay and I ended up conbining hives before winter.
You win some and loose some but we all have to play by natures rules.

BEST WISHES FOR A SUCCESSFUL OUTCOME. 

[annette]

I am in luck. Warmer weather today and for a few days before more rain coming. I feel good about it all. Thanks for the good wishes all of you.

Sincerely
Annette