Communal feeding, don't do it this way!!!!!

Cindi · October 13, 2007, 11:37:54 AM

Finally, my post of the communal feeding from hell!!! My advice to anyone, once you have listened to my story and looked at my pictures, you will know that I don't advise to feed the bees the way that I did. I thought that it would keep many foragers away from me when I was doing some deep work within the colonies. It did, but man what a mess!!!!

There is a topic on "what have you learned this year?" I have so much that I have learned, the hard way, I couldn't begin to list them on that thread, it would have been too great!!!! :( ;) :) :evil: :roll:. Oh dear, there aren't enough icons to describe how I feel :)

But all is good. Learn by my errors, I can teach you well.

It seems to be the most common way to feed bees communally is to provide a bucket of sugar syrup with floaty things in it. The bees can climb on the floaty things or climb down the sides and sip this lucious bit of heaven.

I thought that I would do it even in a bigger and better way. Nope, it wound up being a great big rumble in the sugar.

So...this is what I did. I had a large plastic container, I placed about an inch of 2:1 sugar syrup in it. Thought, I needed to provide some stuff for the bees to light upon to drink. So, I picked a whole bunch of the California Poppy greens and placed them thickly in the sugar syrup. Looked perfect, lots of room to stand on the greens and drink.

Then, a little while later I went out to check on these girls, to see if they were obsessing enough with this food to not bother me too much. There were thousands of bees, in huge piles in the sugar syrup, stacked on top of each other, some piles maybe 3 inches thick with bees. Now that is alot of bees.

I think what happened was that so many bees went to drink that they kept piling upon each other and pushing the lower bees into the sugar syrup, deeper than the floaty stuff I put in.

I was horrified!!! So, now I have to figure out a way to get all the poor bees that were stuck at the bottom out, so they didn't drown from the weight of all the bees.

I go and get sticks from everywhere, (that is not hard to do around here). I know that bees love to climb upwards (even remember that in a swarm box to put a stick in attached from side to side top to bottom, whatever for the bees to cluster on). So in this large plastic vat I put in a bunch of sticks. The bees from under the syrup, on top of the syrup, on top of the floaty stuff, all over began to climb up the sticks to the safety of a dry spot. It was reasonably warm outside, not sunny, but hazy.

The bees that climbed up the sticks were covered in sugar syrup, and I mean covered, the sugar syrup dried on many of them, but then stuck on so hard that I don't think the bees had a chance in blazes to get this dried sugar off. I don't doubt that many perished. Maybe many got the sugar off, but the next day I did see many poor little girls dead on the grass. I also think that the sugar syrup make their bodies too heavy to fly. Oh brother, so many life lessons learned with the bees.

I hope that these pictures aren't disgusting to any of my forum friends (I know they disturb me to no end).....But I had to post them to show what can happen.

I am an experimenter, some experiments work out great, others a fiasco. Have a wonderful and beautiful day, love our life we're livin'. Cindi

Understudy · October 13, 2007, 12:15:30 PM

A bee feeding frenzy. I like to stand in the middle of them. It is wild.

The sticks were an excellent idea. But yes you probably lost quite a few bees.

Put the sticks in first next time and all should be well.

Sincerely,
Brendhan

Brian D. Bray · October 13, 2007, 04:33:14 PM

The pictures are the reason I've learned to feed from a bucket or paint can with the lid holed just as you would a feeder placed inside a hive. Also feeding with a can, jar, or bucket is more indicative or gathering nectar from a flower so there is less fighting and robbing. It's more like a micro flow in a specific spot.

I learned to Never feed from an open container unless it is to clean out the last little film left on the sides of the container. Then I lay the container on its side and let the bees wade in ankle deep to get the syrup after landing on the sides. If you chose to feed from an open container a sufficient amount of surface must be exposed for the bees to land on prior to getting to the syrup. If you've every filled feeders in the beeyard you should have observed that the bees will actually fly right into the syrup--trying to land on its surface. To open feed place barriers bettween the bees and the syrup. In Cindi's picture I would have placed as many sticks or boards into the bucket as possible FRIST then poured in the syrup. A bucket with sticks placed so thickly that the stand straight up is better than stick laying at an angle.

Old Timer · October 13, 2007, 10:52:03 PM

get some chicken waterers like these http://www.mcmurrayhatchery.com/category/plastic_waterers.html
all you have to do is put some pebbles in around the bottom and never drown a bee again! they have some big ones, five and seven gallon. or you could get a few one gallon ones and spread them out through your yard,

Cindi · October 13, 2007, 11:48:03 PM

You see, that is why I posted this embarrasing thread, and the pictures to go along with it. Lessons to watch, listen and to become the best of the best. We are all apiculturists in the making, and yes, some of us, already there. I have learned an extremely valuable lesson ( and yes, I keep on learning and learning and learning). I will do things so much differently. Loving learning, loving to be a part of an ability to learn, and best of all, lovin' this life I'm livin'. Cindi

Michael Bush · October 14, 2007, 12:13:19 AM

Feeding frenzies happen sometimes even when fed in the hive. The bad thing is that in the hive they sometimes spill over into robbing. It helps if you have more exposed surface for the bees to work so they aren't piled on top of each other, but with a lot of hives that can be hard to provide.

Sometimes feeding turns into a frenzy no matter what you do.

doak · October 14, 2007, 12:32:17 AM

I Have not and will not feed bees in the open under any circumstance and would advise anyone else not to do so. I do have a watering pan but don't use it to feed sugar syrup.
There is nothing wrong with experimenting. But pass this on to all new beekeepers Don't feed in this manner. If there is anyone that can and get by with it, more power to them.
You will loose more bees this way from fighting each other and from other stinging insects than you will by
individual hive feeding, plus not saying nothing bees from other sources, that may have something bad that you're bees don't have, until after the fact.
Plus having to have it far enough to keep it from causing a robbing frenzy.
Nothing wrong with learning the hard way, nine times out of ten you remember it better.

May-be some of you can feed this way with no problems, I haven't and will not try it.
Not because of your experiment but because it's not good practice.

Any one who wants too, say what you want, I like criticism.
;)doak

bberry · October 14, 2007, 01:48:09 AM

Cindi-you are great! I'm so sorry for the traumatic experience but i love that you shared this so that others can learn from it. Just look at it as your loss will save many other bees. But i have a question: if people do communal feedings...just how do they do it?

rdy-b · October 14, 2007, 02:05:14 AM

there are certain times of the year it just wont work without a bee riot just like how the bees temperament changes from march to august. bees are pleasant in march and very testy in august. learning your area and its seasonal impact on the bees is a start. some places they dont feed after october 5. the bees that didnt make it where probably old field bees without much left in them any way at least they gave there all. when i feed like that i use a old dryed up tumble weed for them to climb on . RDY-B

UtahBees · October 14, 2007, 03:17:28 AM

Cindi -

Thanks for sharing. I learned a lot, and appreciate you taking these photos.

Live and learn - I love this board!

beekeeperookie · October 14, 2007, 09:22:01 AM

I have tried the communal feeding and I used a chicken water to feed them, my only bad issue with feeding the girls is I am feeding everything else.

I have a question for everyone, I noticed since i gotten my hives I have some little yellow jackets (at least that what they look like) that been living in the ground right next to the girls never had them in my yard before. They are everywhere trying to get into the hives I believe they are attracted to the sugar. Throw powder sugar on the ground and these jackets have a field day. Anyone have issue with them?

Cindi · October 14, 2007, 11:44:06 AM

These comments are all wonderful. I have to agree with not feeding outside the hive period.

All my colonies are and have been fed inside their hives for the past month now. The communal feeding outside was just to be nice to the bees, to give them all some extra food and something to do. Blah, Blah!!!! I am kind of getting the jist that outside feeding is not the best of ideas, but I fed again yesterday, just for fun, to try a different feeding method.

I did not experience bees fighting, and I watched closely off and on all day, to see if I had a riot or not. Lots of busy bees drinking in the sugar syrup, but no fighting that I could see. Anyways, it gave me a chance to kill hundreds of yellowjackets. They enjoyed the sugar syrup as much as the bees. I think I downsized the population of yellowjackets, and in my mind's eye, a good thing, I don't like them, I have a vendetta of death for them and they died. I grab them by their head when they are not looking and snap my fingers, off with their heads, takes only a second, they don't have a chance to sting me and I fling them way off into the wild blue yonder. Maybe some bird will eat their remains, I can only wish that!!!!!

I am making another post about using a draw quilt, with pictures, I am sure many of you use these anyways, but look for my post that is forthcoming, it will be interesting, I will show pictures of my baggie feeders in the hives now instead of inner frame feeders.

Have a wonderful and beautiful day, great life, our sun is gonna shine, for the second day in a row!!! Yeah!!!!! Cindi

Jerrymac · October 14, 2007, 12:10:04 PM

I sit out the wax remains that have honey on them along with frames with honey residue and other honey left over from what ever watered down in an inverted jar. The feeding station is a hundred yards from the hives and everybody comes over for the feast. Even big black jumping spiders, praying mantis, wasp, Jap Beetles. Moths. Flies. The spiders and mantises make a meal out of the other insects.

Cindi. You must have some lackadaisical Yellow jackets. The paper wasp around here notice you as soon as you walk up. I usually try to camouflage my intent with a stick or something natural looking so they think nothing of it before their little head is squashed. Otherwise they fly off, or buzz your face trying to intimidate you.

Cindi · October 14, 2007, 12:44:57 PM

Jerry, ha!!!!! I liked to hear your experience!!!!! Those Yellowjackets try to get away, I think they see my fingers coming at them and try to get away, ha!!!!! Usually they are so engrossed in sipping the syrup that they don't pay mind to me. Not to say, I think that they are all almost on their death beds and just don't give two hoots about their life anymore ;) :) They will ALL be dead in about 2 weeks with those blasted queens hiding and hibernating somewhere. I found a queen the other day in a carrying tray for greenhouse flat inserts. She bit the dust!!!! Man are those queens big, erked me out and I gave her the death sentence. Have a wonderful day, love this beautiful life we're livin. Cindi

Moonshae · October 14, 2007, 09:45:46 PM

I was under the impression that you needed a lot of floating material for the bees to crawl down through to get to the syrup, as opposed to just a landing pad.

sean · October 14, 2007, 11:18:48 PM

I used a large butter bucket(larger than a quart) mixed the sugar in it put a styrofoam plate on the top and just turned it over and placed it on a block. It you are not careful, when turning it over it may spill on you (of course i learned the hard way) but it worked, no dead bees just a couple wasps that i killed deliberately

Cindi · October 14, 2007, 11:55:33 PM

Moonshae. That is it, bang on the nail. All the responses to this post and others as well indicate this. Bees like to climb upwards and downwards, preferably the former.

If they can climb downwards to drink, that is I think very natural to them. To try and hit a landing board is not natural. I have learned lessons, listened to lessons learned by others. I have more pictures that I will post to show how the bees like to to the source of food, not land directly into it. But that comes with another day. Have a beautiful and wonderful life, beautiful day. Cindi

jimmy_in_texas · October 15, 2007, 11:58:24 PM

I hate to tell this story but had too after reading what happened to Cindi, this is my first year having a hive and I have learned at least one thing not to do.
I had a division board feeder but got tired of it because it was so much trouble to refill, getting all the live bees out of it not the least.

I first tried using a dinner size plastic plate which I sat about 50 feet from the hive, I would pour about a 1/4 inch in and the bees got to where they would be waiting on me when I filled it about 3:00 every day, they would line up all around the plate and I would have to refill about 2 more times before dark. this went on for about 2 weeks, it all seemed very orderly at the time. (my wife said I had them trained)

Then one day I got to looking at some large styrofoam cooler lids I have, they had a perfect size indention on the bottom so when I laid it on some cinder blocks I had a rectangle about 2 feet by 4 feet, well I said, you cant have enough, so I used 2 of them hoping for a mass feeding. basically the size of a full sheet of plywood. well I arranged all the blocks, set the lids on them fairly level and poured about a 1/4 inch in each, I even helped by putting in lots of sticks for traction.

well I came back in about 30 minutes and there was a pretty good crowd working all over, I was happy, they was happy, in about another hour I came back and I could hear it before I could see it, you couldnt hardly see the white lids because of thousands of bees like a thick carpet on both of them, I never saw such a sight, I have no idea how many were in the air, but it was like a small cloud.
even after dark there was piles of bees like small swarms in several places nearby.

after dark I washed the lids and put them up, the really bad part is that after that incedent, every day around 2 or 3 o'clock, robber bees would show up in mass and try to get in my hive, sometimes there would even be what looked like small swarms on the back side of the hive but they would leave before dark.
I never saw any robbers before that and there was continual fighting for about 2 months after that before they finally quit coming around, I now have a top feeder and it works great. I will never feed outside the hive again. it also made my bees very aggresive for a while but they have since calmed back down to the way they used to bee.

well at least now I know.

Jimmy

beekeeperookie · October 16, 2007, 10:11:39 AM

I have fighting when I put out frames or anything with honey on them from my hives, with the sugar syrup they just take there turns at the feeder. Ok so there is some shoving going on but thats it, I believe this way is personal I will continue to do it next spring. Its easier to keep them from robbing each other when you place a feeder several feet away from your hives

MrILoveTheAnts · October 16, 2007, 02:33:56 PM

We used to have a water dish meant for rabbits that we'd use for communal feeding. It had a soda bottle that you'd screw upside down in the center of the dish. It would slowly empty itself as the bees fed. Of course we had a few dozen sticks floating in it for the bees to land on and such to prevent drowning. The trouble was we'd have to setup another one next to it to refill the other one. Since you have to turn the bottle upside down it would be an awful mess otherwise. I haven't seen these sold anywhere though, I wonder if they make them still.