winter robbers dead bees

Patrick · December 06, 2007, 07:22:48 PM

I have seen a few posts about dead bees here the last few weeks and thought this might interest. My hive is located on a spot where I can see the bees on the ground and I have been noticing more dead bees than usual. There is always robbing going on where I am at so I keep a robber screen on almost year round, and that makes robbers easier to notice. It seems the robbers end up hanging around the hive after nightfall and are caught on the outside of the screen. The next day they walk around on the ground, presumably hungry, and the die. Has anyone else observed this?

Cheers,
Patrick

Cindi · December 21, 2007, 11:10:45 AM

Patrick, I see that there has not been any responses to your post, lots of views though. What I would be curious about would be, if you see the bees on the ground in the morning walking around like maybe they were starving, I wonder if they were really robbers. Maybe they were just bees that their time had come. I honestly would have thought that robbers would have headed back home, unless their home had absolutely no food, and they were so desperate. Robbers would look for food and then return home to fuel up is my thought on this. Maybe with this post brought up to being more current now, you will get some answers to this important question (hint, hint, forum friends, hee, hee). Have a wonderful and beautiful day, greatest of life. Cindi

Patrick · December 21, 2007, 01:54:48 PM

Thanks Cindi for replying to my lonely post :'( :-D There is a little walking around but mostly dead bees out in front of the hive. I don't think they are starving, there is 60 lbs of honey inside and I have seen them the upper box? It has been getting up to 66F in the day. I suspected robbing so I closed up the entrance to a 2 bees wide width, via a robber screen, and it seems to have the same result as I have seen with (what I believe to be robbers) before. That is after dark many bees still clinging to the screen on the outside. Ofcourse it is all very curious and worry some to me. I can't really open up and look in the brood chamber as the weather is still a bit cold and rainy. The hive seems active bees coming and going the occasional pollen coming in.

Cheers,
Patrick

pdmattox · December 21, 2007, 06:46:14 PM

Have you tried entrance reducers and reduce to the smallest size possible instead of robber screen. some bees dead in front of the hive is normal.

Patrick · December 21, 2007, 10:45:15 PM

You know pdmattox I just did that today. There were about 20 bees all clinging to the screen (on the outside) all dead or nearly. I took the screen off and they did not move I set it down near by when I came back at sun down they were still there. A lot of them seem like smaller feral bees to me? I am not really sure if they are my bees or not. Meanwhile the temps are not that cold 60 F to 40F and the hive gets busy as the day warms up. But I have figured on about 30 to 40 bees per day have been piling up now for about a month. I still have a lot to learn about these little wonders.

Cheers,
Patrick

Cindi · December 22, 2007, 08:57:22 AM

Patrick, you will be learning for years, and then still need to learn some more, don't fret that, every day is an experience with the bees. I have been at it for coming up to three years and know I am still only on the tip of that iceberg. Lots of bees die all the time, you will notice it especially when you have large colonies, this is because of the number ratios, obviously. Your summer bees are probably just dieing off, the natural sequence of life. Keep an eye on things though, it is good for you, and gives you something to do, hee, hee. Have a wonderful and best of a beautiful day, Cindi

CBEE · December 22, 2007, 09:29:28 AM

I think I might be more worried if there were not any dead bees in front of the hive in the winter. ??????

Trot · December 22, 2007, 11:42:21 AM

Patrick,

I don't think that where you are there is really winter per se?
Talk is all about robber or bees which may or may not be yours. Even being feral? Remember, young ones are smaller...
Now, strange bees/robbers will be dealt with when trying to enter the hive. Or at least they should be?!
Bees from who knows where, do not as a rule try to enter strange hives. There are exceptions, but I doubt that such is the case with yours.
I do not detect any talk about fighting? Remove the robber screens cause the screens are killing your bees by starving them to death.

IMHO you have a few young bees taking first orientation flights and they do not know how to get back home. They are homing in on the pheromones coming out of the entrance, (same as robbers do.) They are not yet experienced enough to learn that there is a secret way around the screen!
Those poor bees are than desperately clinging on your screen and starving to death. Bees only load up so much fuel for flight and before fuel runs out they have to get home or their journey is done for good.

As suggested about old bees?
True, old bees die off all the time, but those which can fly - fly as far away as they feel necessary. ( They have it in them to get away from their hive so they don't unnecessarily burden the hive with their passing.)
In the unlikely event that they are sick, infected and/or poisoned - they want to get as far as they can in order to save the hive from possible crisis...
Some, of course, pas on in the hive, cause they have no time to exit, but undertakers take care of them...They do not cling for dear life around home. . . .

Cindi · December 22, 2007, 01:12:53 PM

Patrick, you have heard some words of wisdom from another old time beekeeper. Trot has kept bees for a great part of his life, and has many, many, many years of experience. Trot has been a forum member for quite some time, and the only time that I see him post is when he feels it urgent that some of his thoughts be put forth here. Not to say that he doesn't read all the posts. BUT.....he has something very very important to say to you, and others that listen, that I would heed these words, they are wise.

I never thought about the aspects which Trot speaks about. He read through your lines and realized that you do not have "winter" per se. Thinking about what Trot is saying, I think that he is bang on about the bees on the screens being potential new foraging bees, ones performing their orientation flights, being so inexperienced about finding their ways into their home, no ability to "figure" out how to get back into their homes yet.

Just before the older bees begin to take on duties outside of the hive, like foraging, perform these orientation flights. They fly around the front of their home flying backwards, looking at the orientation of their home, they do this for several minutes before they return inside, they will do this several times a day sometimes. If they cannot find the "secret" entrance of the robber screen, they will try with all their might to get back inside, getting stuck on the front of the screen.

Again, I think that Trot is 100% correct, also about what he speaks about, about the robbing bees. Do as he has told you. This may save all these younger bees that need to get out to perform their tasks, the biggest one right now, is learning the orientation of their hives. Have a wonderful and greatest of days. We are all listening and learning. Cindi

Trot · December 22, 2007, 03:31:11 PM

As I hate to butt in, but some sort of Thank You is in order here....

Cindy, you are too nice and your wise words above, could have made some younger man blush..? :-D

At the same time I will use this opportunity and wish You and all - a Merry Christmas
and a Happy, Safe, Healthy and Bee-utiful New Year !

Regards,
Trot

Patrick · December 24, 2007, 12:37:20 PM

Thanks Trot,
Many things I had not considered, and did not know. Very helpful.
Cheers,
Patrick

Cindi · December 25, 2007, 11:10:04 AM

Patrick, if you are following Trot's advice (and I hope you are), report back to us and let us know how things worked out. I would be interested deeply. Have the best and wonderfulest day. Cindi

Understudy · December 25, 2007, 10:09:16 PM

Take a sprinkler and put it on top of the hive so water falls around the hive. That will stop robbing.

Sincerely,
Brendhan

Michael Bush · December 26, 2007, 07:16:12 AM

http://www.bushfarms.com/beesrobbing.htm

Patrick · December 27, 2007, 03:43:34 PM

Thanks all for the robbing info. I'm pretty clear about sprinklers and robber screens. I have used the screen all summer with success to solve a robbing problem on a new package. What I did not consider was Trot's suggestion that the bees on the outside of the screen might be, in this case, new bees having trouble getting back in. I took the screen off and went with a single small opening and, so far I think Trot was right on. I still think there is a bit of attempted robbing going on but not at any significant level, like in the summer. The real signal for me is the bees walking around on the side and flying around in back of the hive. In summer, robbers seem to do the same thing on the screen, that is congregate on the outside after dark. I have seen this when closing off the opening at night to halt robbing. Robbers coming back the next morning and hanging around till after dark on the closed off hive.

On a side note. Not much for my bees to do but when they fly I have noticed them visiting my dormant peach and apricot trees, as if inspecting the spots where the buds and flowers will form. As you know these are the first to bloom in the spring (about one and a half months away where I am at) and the bees seem to know it.

Cheers,
Patrick

Cindi · December 28, 2007, 10:56:14 AM

Patrick, see, we all learn something new many times. I am glad that you listened to the advice of Trot. I don't want to make him blush again, but he has been keeping bees for decades, he has probably seen it all, hee, hee. He knows what he speaks about, as do so many forum friends here. Good, I am glad things are working out. Have a wonderful, great day. Cindi