Frame wiring

[malabarchillin]

If I use foundation with vertical wires can I get buy with pins in the frame sides
without extraction damage or do I have to wire horizontal too ? If I use 9 frames in a 10 frame
super would that make a difference to the question above ? Are there any outstanding image intensive
tutorials on wire and embedding ? Those that use current in a wire to embed is it hard to not melt through the foundation. It seems like the vertical wires would short the current in the horizontal wires.
Thanks

[Michael Bush]

>If I use foundation with vertical wires can I get buy with pins in the frame sides
without extraction damage or do I have to wire horizontal too ?

You don't have to use any wires at all, so it's all optional.

> If I use 9 frames in a 10 frame
super would that make a difference to the question above ?

No.  But I wouldn't use them until they are drawn.

http://www.bushfarms.com/beesfaqs.htm#framespacing

> Are there any outstanding image intensive
tutorials on wire and embedding ?

http://www.beesource.com/eob/wire_embedder/index.htm

> Those that use current in a wire to embed is it hard to not melt through the foundation.

Just practice and time it.   Once you know how long to go it's easy.

> It seems like the vertical wires would short the current in the horizontal wires.

I've never done both horizontal and vertical.

http://www.bushfarms.com/images/Foundation49.jpg
http://www.bushfarms.com/images/WireEmbedder.JPG
http://www.bushfarms.com/images/WireCrimpers.JPG
http://www.bushfarms.com/beesmisc.htm

[Robo]

Personally I find pins to be useless.  Either the foundation breaks around them or the bees chew it away from the pins.

The key to not burning thru the wax is to limit the current so the wire doesn't get too hot.  As Michael suggested,  practice.   

You embed one horizontal wire at a time, so there is no issue with the vertical wires.

If I have time over the holidays,  perhaps I can do a short demo video on wire embedding.

[BMAC]

Robo a short demo video would be great.  I would appreciate it too.  I have considered just using wax foundation instead of the plastic. 

[Finsky]

If I use foundation with vertical wires can I get buy with pins in the frame sides
without extraction damage or do I have to wire horizontal too ?/quote]

I recommend to use wires. You will not regret it.

Vertical wires ar bad. When you clean the burr, vertical wires will be easily cutted.

If I use 9 frames in a 10 frame
super would that make a difference to the question above ?/quote]

No difference. Fist put 10 foundations into 10 frame box. When they are drawn, then take one away and let them make combs thicker.

(quote] Those that use current in a wire to embed is it hard to not melt through the foundation.

You put 1000 W electrict machine inside the circuit or use car accu loader.

[BeeHopper]

Yep !  PINS are useless. Whether you use them in the brood or supers, the girls chew the wax around them, then you have pins supporting air.  :-x  Use the wire  :-D

[Jeffzhear]

I just wire my full depth and medium depth frames through the center two holes after inserting the rivits.  I use crimp wire foundation for the most part.  I don't wire up the 6 1/4 frames, the crimp wire holds up fine through extraction for me.

[malabarchillin]

Thanks for the replies.

How far off center ( 10%..50%) can the bushing holes in the side bars be before you redrill them to be center ? I have some boughten frames that are pretty far off. If I were to use the bad hole locations and embedded the wires would the bees offset it when drawing comb or would they draw uneven depth comb following the contour of the foundation ?
Regards
Mike

[Brian D. Bray]

Thanks for the replies.

How far off center ( 10%..50%) can the bushing holes in the side bars be before you redrill them to be center ? I have some boughten frames that are pretty far off. If I were to use the bad hole locations and embedded the wires would the bees offset it when drawing comb or would they draw uneven depth comb following the contour of the foundation ?
Regards
Mike

Embedding Uneven wire will make the foundation warped.  It is possible, depending on placement of that frame and on which frame the bees decide to start drawing comb that the warp will carry through out the super.  If the holes are off, say, the width of the hole there shouldn't be any real problem.  If they are off quite a bit I'd drill new holes.  That is, if I were using foundation, which I don't so it's never a problem.

[malabarchillin]

I have searched the net for frame wiring pages and I can not find out how taut the wires should be.
I have a tangential extractor so that probably makes it more important. Are they suppose to make a dull plink when they are plucked or a much higher pitch ?
Thanks
Mike

[Brian D. Bray]

I have searched the net for frame wiring pages and I can not find out how taut the wires should be.
I have a tangential extractor so that probably makes it more important. Are they suppose to make a dull plink when they are plucked or a much higher pitch ?
Thanks
Mike

The wires should be taunt.  Make a jig that has a concentric wheel on 1 side.  4 pegs upright in a board works well to hold the frame.  Position the wheel so that as it cams it bows the end bar(s) of the frame.  String the wire has taunt as you can by hand, set the anchor nails and release the cam.
The end bars will straighten and tighten the wires a tad more.  Taunt wires are best for embedding into foundation. 

For an electric embedder get a 12 volt transformer from Radio Shack or some other outfit, or steal one out of an old peice of electronic equipment.  Take a 1X2 about 17 inches long.  Affix the wire from one side (preferably the ground side) of the transformer (12v side) to a prong on one end of the board. install a momentary switch inline on the hot wire and affix it to a prong on the opposite end of the board.  Positiion 2-3 more prongs (unconnected) between the other 2 prongs.  In using the embedder position the board along a wire to that the prongs make contact with the frame wire to be embedded.  Enagage the momentary switch for a second and the wire will melt right into the foundation.  The extra prongs are to make sure the wire embeds all along its length.  Repeat on each wire of the frame.  The momentary switch means current to heat the wire is there only while the switch is held down.  By the time you've gone through 2-3 frames you should have the knack down pat.