How to make a steam system- help please

Chela · December 19, 2007, 05:23:39 AM

I have acquired a hot water urn (boiler) and would like some step by step advice on how i can modify it to run my steam knife from it.

Any plans or suggestions would be greatly appreciated.

Thanks in advance

Chela
Sydney, Australia

Cindi · December 19, 2007, 10:19:31 AM

Chela, welcome, you have found the right place to get some help with your queery, and the answers will come, be patient, wait. I cannot help you with this, but we have many great members with lots of information. Welcome, tell us a little bit about yourself so we can get to know you better. Then...have a wonderful and great day. Cindi

Chela · December 19, 2007, 04:04:01 PM

Hi Cindi,

This is a nice surprise - it is the first time in any forum that i have been welcomed in this way - thank you :)

I am looking forward to spending quite a bit of time here getting to know you guys as well as learning and sharing as much as i can.
Compared to some of the folks on here i am relatively new to beekeeping as i have only been playing with bees for about 5 years. I live in Sydney, Australia and keep my bees in a very beautiful part of the world called Jervis Bay (about 2 1/2 hours drive south of Sydney) - it boasts natural bushland, many pristine beaches as well as having the whitest sand in the world.

My honey is mainly from Eucalyptus trees and other native flora, i have 6 beehives and recently purchased a Swienty "World extractor" which is a horizontal plane radial extractor.

Look forward to spending time here, have a great day !!!

Chela

Kirk-o · December 19, 2007, 06:29:37 PM

I don't know what you got but the old days the steam generator was just like a pot you put on a stove or hot plate.The steam went out through a hose to the knife and returned to the pot.It has been a long time .But the steam or hot water circluated.
kirko

Dick Allen · December 19, 2007, 06:45:20 PM

Here's a company in Australia you can contact. They might offer you some assistance.

http://www.bindaree.com.au/pricelists/products/uncapping_knife_steam.htm

Chela · December 20, 2007, 03:52:22 AM

Thanks Guys,

The descriptions Kirk-o and Dick provided make things much clearer for me and i think i am now on the right track.

The icing on the cake would be a picture or two :)

Cheers

Chela

Michael Bush · December 20, 2007, 07:22:55 AM

The one essential thing every steam system HAS to have is some kind of "pop off" to set a maximum pressure so it doesn't explode. A thermostat of some kind is the next most useful thing. After that it's all pipes etc. but I really don't know how they get the steam to a knife with a flexible hookup.

BMAC · December 20, 2007, 08:43:04 AM

The flex line could possibly be a wire braided heater core line for a car. I think it would handle the light pressure fairly well. I would of course step and and do a few test runs on it before I got burnt from a hose coming off.

CBEE · December 20, 2007, 09:41:40 AM

Have you thought about buying an electric version ? I know they are not cheap but by the time you get all the components to make your system you may be spending the same amount of money. You also dont have to worry about blowing yourself up or getting scalded. Your lines would need to be an insulated type also because they will be hotter than you think. what you have my be a small system but that doesn't mean it can't hurt ya

Chela · December 20, 2007, 10:04:25 AM

Cbee,

I already have a steam knife and in addition to this i want to be able to heat my capping's tank and extractor to allow for easier extraction and separation of honey from the wax, so steam seems to be the most economical and sustainable way to go.

Chela

Cindi · December 20, 2007, 10:32:46 AM

Chela, thank you for the kind words. Now......once you have been a member for a little time, you will be "allowed" to post pictures and links to websites, but it takes a few posts, protocol. If you have a digital camera, and you want to post pictures right away, you can send to one of the Moderators of our forum and they can put them on our forum for you. I don't know how many posts you need to make before you can post pictures, not too many.

It is wonderful to see how people beekeep around the world, the pictures posted by our forum members are wonderful. It allows us to go into your piece of this ol' world, not just in our mind's eye, and it is something that I look forward to, these beautiful pictures. So keep this in mind, tell us of you, where you live and your beehives. You will see different forums here, one in particular is for members to post pictures of anything. Have a wonderful and beautiful day, it sounds like your bees are in a beautiful place. Cindi

Michael Bush · December 21, 2007, 12:17:14 AM

The nice thing about a steam knife is that it never gets too hot and burns the honey...

DayValleyDahlias · December 21, 2007, 12:23:20 AM

Doncha just LOVE the "INTERNATIONALNESS -Ness" of this forum!

WOWEE, I am tickled Pink~*~*~ :-D

Yarra_Valley · December 21, 2007, 07:54:16 AM

Hi there Chela,

Great to have another Australian onboard!

Is your urn / boiler a pressure cooker? I don't know if there is one near you, but if you go to clark rubber, you should be able to find some tubing that can withstand the required heat to run to your steam knife. I think I've seen people using standard garden hose on them too. Now the fitting you need to attach the hose to the boiler, and perhaps a circlip, I don't really know where you can get those. I think if you can find the tubing you use on radiators at clark rubber, you can probably a circlip at the same shop to attach it to the hose, but I'm not sure about attaching it to the boilder. I've looked around at the obvious places such as Bunnings, and when I ask they usually give me a blank look, and then after some hesitation point me towards something which is useless. I'll have a think about it though and maybe I'll think of something.

Other, would you be able to give me some info on your extractor, or perhaps a link to a company which sells it?

I'm from a place called Healesville, about 60 k's NW of Melbourne. I'm running about 10 hives too. Mainly messamate here, with a bit of manna gum, peppermint gum, and the blackberries in the late spring / early summer.

James.

CBEE · December 21, 2007, 09:36:02 AM

What does the connection look like that you are connecting the hose to ?
If it is what I think it is then any auto parts store will have a hose clamp the size you need. Get the screw type that you tighten down with a screwdriver. If I had a picture of the fitting I am sure I can tell you what you need to hook it up. Do you know the working pressure of your system ?

BenC · December 22, 2007, 03:20:19 PM

Regardless of the setup you design, definitely check for a safety popoff like Michael said. The only experience I had with steam was basically an "open" system, which meant minimal, practically no pressure. The "used" water does not need to return to the boiler. The temp never exceeds the boiling point of the liquid being vaporized unless you let it boil dry, have a restriction such as a kinked or incorrectly sized hose (back pressure), or are pumping too much heat too fast into the boiler. The output from your knife could be something as simple as a tube running down into a bucket of water. Steam would be trapped by the cooler water (condenser) so that your work area would not turn into a sweatlodge. Put a little pitch (fall) in the whole system so that water condensing in the line goes out the exhaust hose rather than making a plug and blowing out in spurts. When done, remove the hose from the water bucket and turn off the heat, again-don't kink the hose or the can will collapse upon cooling. If you are unsure or uneasy about anything with steam, don't do it. I saw a video once of a water heater with a bad safety popoff. When it blew up it went up through the floors (that means joists too) and roof of a house and into the sky, steam has enormous energy in it.

Chela · December 23, 2007, 05:23:51 AM

Thanks for the warning BenC i will be diligent with my hoses and connections, i remember in school we made a hot can crush inwards after poring cold water on it...it was amazing the power that steam has :shock:

James, great to meet a fellow Australian on here........ its funny.....how we need to go overseas to meet people in the same country lol.

I have found some of those hose clamps and the hose i have is braided inside ie reinforce pressure hose that is also temperature rated - expensive but will do the job.

The boiler i have is an urn, its not a pressure cooker - i do have a small pressure cooker and can easily take the pressure valve from it to put onto the urn.

James are you on acreage ? and have you had any trouble with Small hive beetles?

Regards

Chela

Chela · December 23, 2007, 06:04:05 AM

James,

Details of my extractor may be seen on the "Swienty" Website in Denmark, the item is "World-Extractor

Item No.: 108600
Price:
EUR 300,00 Incl. VAT
EUR 240,00 Ex VAT

This forum won't let me post a URL yet, just google swienty and it is the first one that comes up

It sells for 240 Euros from the manufacturer in Denmark- current exchange rate means about AUD $400, I need to point out a few important points:-

## It would be much cheaper to buy from the states if you can find a supplier there that can ship through UPS, FEDex or
similar large freight company

## Buying direct through Denmark proved excessively expensive - Swienty shipped via their
forwarding agency which charged me an addittional AUD$240 for clearing and handling - on top of the initial 70 Euro (AUD
$116) freight to get it to Australia - Had it been shipped via UPS etc the AUD $240 would have been absorbed in the initial
freight cost.

## The extractor didn't come with instructions (not really needed but would have been nice)

## The extractor was taped up to stop damage whilst in transit - only problem was that the glue left from the tape
took me 2 hours to remove, tried everything without success, finally was told to use isopropyl alcohol which worked but
with a lot of sweat.

The extractor quality i would give an 8/10 the legs and pulley covers could have been made with a slightly thicker metal otherwise it is cleverly made and should last.
Will literally give it a spin next week when i crack open my hives :)

I believe there is a supplier now in Australia (Penders Beekeeping Supplies near New Castle - approx 2 hrs north of Sydney) they were selling it for about AUD$650.

Hope this helps

Chela

Yarra_Valley · December 24, 2007, 08:54:10 AM

Hi there Chela,

Thanks for all the info on the extractor. I'll check out the Penders site and see if there is anything on it.

I'm on about 20 acres in my home town, and I have a few other sites around where I can move them if I want, with different Eucalypts, and hence different flows.

No problems with SHB this far south yet, but the commercial apiarists are very concerned about it. As it stands this years honey production in Victoria will be well below average due to the drought.

With regards to the urn, if its not pressurised, I'm not sure if you will have enough steam for your extractor, knife and reducer. I've picked up a few pressure cookers, usually for under $10 each.

Yeah, cool to have another aussie!

CBEE · December 24, 2007, 12:42:47 PM

Chela,
If you use the open type system described a couple posts above running the outlet hose into a bucket of water there should be enough steam created to run your system. The small inner diameter of your hose will create just enough back pressure to generate steam ( think of the whistle on a tea pot ) and the blow off valve should ensure pressure relief if a hose gets kinked or clogged. The tricky part is regulating the heat on the boiler. You also need to remeber as the water level drops in the boiler the heat requirement changes. What is the size of your boiler ? how much water does it hold ?