Plastic honey combs opinion

[PricopArthur]

Hello, this is my first post on this forum. I am a small honey-bee lover, from Romania (so please don't be too harsh on my expression) and I wish to know your opinion on if it's better to use plastic honey combs, instead of normal bee-wax ones. Till now i used normal ones, but many people told me what plastic ones are better, and other say that the plastic version are not ecological approved.
What types of honey combs do you gentlemen use, and why?

[Scadsobees]

Hello and welcome to Beemaster!!

Go ahead and ask questions!  I love to hear myself talk, so I answer eagerly :roll:

You are "opening a can of worms" here...much discussed and disagreed upon.

I personally like plastic.  It is easy to install, no wires, reusable, comparable in price to other foundation, and stays straight.
The downside is that initially the bees don't like it too much and it isn't accepted as well.  But if the bees don't have any other foundation, then they will draw it out(never use a queen excluder with undrawn plastic foundation!!!).  Once it is drawn out, then it is comb just like any other foundation.  I don't think that it is officially "organic" for what that is worth.

There are a lot of people who don't like it, but a lot of people who do.  If you are interested you will have to try it out and decide for yourself.

Rick

[shawnwri]

starter strips of wax are cheap

[Brian D. Bray]

The bees will work plastic comb or foundation if it is aired out, scented with lemon grass oil or vanilla, sprayed with sugar syrup, and otherwise coaxed to work it.  Some strains of bees won't work very well it even then, Caucasians and Minnesota Hygenic are the worse at working anything with plastic.  Be prepared to be exasperated every time you go into the hive.

[annette]

I started with plastic foundation (which they took to just fine), but now am switching to foundationless frames with starter strips. (which they seem to like even more)

Annette

[Michael Bush]

I prefer foundationless:
http://www.bushfarms.com/beesfoundationless.htm

http://www.bushfarms.com/beesfaqs.htm#foundation

[PricopArthur]

Thank you for your opinions. Till now I worked with bee-wax foundations and foundation-less. I think that the main disadvantage of the foundation-less ones is that the honey-bees work as they like, making the cells as they like, not as you like. In Romania, plastic honey-combs are 2 times expensive than the normal wax type ones.

With respect, Arthur.

[Michael Bush]

>I think that the main disadvantage of the foundation-less ones is that the honey-bees work as they like, making the cells as they like, not as you like.

And I thought that was the ADVANTAGE...

[NWIN Beekeeper]

[And I thought that was the ADVANTAGE...]

It is even more appreciated when you know why!

Natural cells are nice because the bees built what they need.  It is essential for a healthy and productive hive to have a mix of cells at the appropriate size to produce a balanced sex of bees that is based on the time of year and needs of the hive. 

Standard foundations are nice for honey supers where you try to force uniformity and productivity.  But in the brood chamber it cause the bees to build cells than can bee less than their ideal size and type.

One should allow their bees to draw at least one natural frame of wax for the beekeepers evaluation.
Keep in mind, the frame location with respect to location within the box, and with in the entire hive will cause variations in cell sizes and locations. The concept that a beekeeper needs to observe is if the cell size is nearer a large cell (5.1mm) or small cell (4.9mm).  The beekeeper can then supply foundation that closest fits the bee's preferences and minimizes their rework efforts.   

This effort is significant and not likely to be performed in large commercial operations. What can be done on a large scale however, is selection of species and strain of bees for use throughout the operation.  Then foundation can be bought based upon the typical cell size.  Keep in mind, price, not cell sizing, normally dominates which foundations are bought in larger operations. There is however an underlying 'cost' to the time wasted reworking incompatible cell patterns.

-Please note this is not a push for or towards or from small cell, I am merely helping you select foundation that is most compatible to your bee stocks.

In any case, for the health of your bees a foundation rotation program should be in place to renew foundations every 3-5 years.  (on plastic this would be the scraping of old combs offs). This assures that the bees are using clean combs that are free (or at least reduced) of disease and/or environmental contaminates.

[PricopArthur]

My Opinion
In every hive I have 1-3 foundation-less frames that I use from April till June. From these I take bee-wax and honey.
The honey-bees build natural combs (from foundation-less ones) by their temporary needs. When the colony expands, these new combs do not correspond to their new necessities. From the natural built combs, I only keep the ones that contain fully worker bees cells (the small ones).
Varroa Jacobsoni prefers to lay eggs especially in big cells. By cutting these combs I am partially blocking their spreading.

[Understudy]

I use permacomb. Fully Drawn Plastic Comb. Love the stuff. You must prep it.

Sincerely,
Brendhan