Fact or Fiction Mean Queen?

[DayValleyDahlias]

I have been told, that if I allow my bees to raise their own queen, that she will raise aggressive "mean" bees. 

Any thoughts, experiences with this?

Tx, Sharon

[Kathyp]

not my experience.  mine have raised 2 both were fine.  could have been more, but 2 i know for sure  :-)

[Scadsobees]

That depends on a lot of factors:

1. Where the bees come from.  Certain queen breeders bees have somewhat of a reputation for the child queens being hot.  I have no experience.

2. Location: If you are in an area where africanized bees are, then the 2nd generation could be mean or africanized.

Here in MI I've let a lot of them raise their own, and they've been fine.

Rick

[annette]

So far, my one hive has raised 2 different queens and they have been good. Not mean, still gentle. I will have to have the experience later on, as I am going to keep letting them do their thing.

Annette

[Kirk-o]

I always say were did you read that.There are a lot of experts out there.If I haven't read it on Michael Bush's page it probably isn't true
kirko

[wtiger]

I'd say it's possible,but generally unlikely especially in non ahb territory.

[JP]

I have had bees raise new queens in my area and have not had any problems. And these were bees from feral stock.

Sincerely, JP

[Michael Bush]

All queens are raised by bees.  Are they all agressive?

[rdy-b]

I have also heard that second generation of superseder will will produce hotter bees something to do with recessive verses dominate traits in the gene pool coming to the surface -but I DONT KNOW -I suspect that if there was AHB some where in the line it could come out -ISNt that why we are careful of who we let rear our queens? -RDY-B

[LocustHoney]

That sounds only half right. I have been told that if your bees are aggressive then you can kill the queen and replace her. As she gets older the bees will tend to be more agressive. But I also believe that it matters what kind of bees your queen mated with. She can mate with all types of bees and then lay various types. It depends on the daddy.

[Moonshae]

Ross Conrad recommends always raising your own queens in his book...I can't imagine he'd recommend it if you were going to end up with testy bees. But requeening a hot hive is always a good idea...why put up with that? It's take some MAJOR production and mite resistance to make that worthwhile.

[rdy-b]

That sounds only half right. I have been told that if your bees are aggressive then you can kill the queen and replace her. As she gets older the bees will tend to be more agressive. But I also believe that it matters what kind of bees your queen mated with. She can mate with all types of bees and then lay various types..

dont know about the queens age afecting the bees temperment -but i do know that as bees become old field bees they are the meanest bees of the colony - RDY-B

[Brian D. Bray]

The major cause of aggressiveness is inbreeding.  Inbreeding is mating a queen back to her brother drones.  If there is a number of hives within a mile or so of your hives there is a good chance there will be sufficient outbreeding to offset any incidental inbreeding. 

Buying packages from different supplies (different queen genetics) can also be a solution to inbreeding.  I do both, I have 2 people within a 1/2 mile of me with bees and I have queens from at least 2 sources.  I figure I can go 3-4 generations before inbreeding becomes a minor problem which I can correct by obtaining queens from a different source.

[JP]

Brian, you da man! Well put!

Sincerely, JP

[DayValleyDahlias]

Ah ha!  I understand now yes, inbreeding.  Okay  I will have to see if there are any beeks around here...ANd I did order 2 packages for some new blood!

[NWIN Beekeeper]

[... if I allow my bees to raise their own queen, that she will raise aggressive "mean" bees. ]

I have to call total BS, (sorry, I mean fiction).

Aggressive behavior comes from a several genes.
Some of which depend on drone contributions.

Since neither the original queen nor the daughter queen have exactly the same male and female gene sets, this is entirely untrue. When open mating, there is equal chance to get 'more gentle' bees as it to get 'meaner bees'. This is one of the reasons we evaluate the stocks of bees we have and should not feel guilty requeening truly hot hives.

One should keep in mind there are a number of other conditions that can make a hive appear more mean.
And I think I understand one reason why the above theory was said.
Bees will become more defensive during a dearth.
When would you raise queens and have enough population to evaluate temperament?
After a flow, probably just as a dearth begins. - bingo, here's your bad temperament.
When might you be inclined to requeen? In the fall!
When is robbing likely at it worst? In the fall! Bingo, here's your bad temperament.
This doesn't even address issue like adverse weather.

So one has to watch honey/pollen flows and other hive conditions before assessing temperament.

Be aware, that the fear that your hive is getting meaner, may make you look for that trait excessively.
It does not make it more prevalent.
Just like there isn't more people driving the new car you bought- you just notice the model more.

[DayValleyDahlias]

Thanks for the update...


I LOVE this forum!

[Burl]

Hey NWIN ,  Thanks for the good common sense , well reasoned answer to the question .   A person has to be a detective sometimes to get things figured out .   When we look for clues as to cause and effect , generally those clues will lead us to a sound conclusion .  That's my theory and I'm stickin' to it !
                          Elementary ---Burl-- elementary .

[Sir Stungalot]

I like what Michael said. Sums up how I feel.
I am in Texas (horrors) and let all my hives raise Queens. Thus far I have not had any nightmare stories to pass on about zillions of bees attacking and killing anyone. My bees continue to be quiet and, as bees go, nice.
I do try to add a few hives each year to the mix from distant sources/races.  I pretty much saturate the area (I hope) with my own drones.
If I ever DO get a cranky hive...well, I know one Queen who will be on the end of my thumb. SQUASH!