cell orientation

[jimmy_in_texas]

My supercell arrived today for two packages I will be picking up in two weeks, I was really curious to do a a side by side comparison with an empty brood frame I took from the freezer,  I guess I dont pay enough attention because I never noticed the cell orientation in the brood frame (natural comb from a small piece I wired in an empty frame last year).

The cell's hex shape's on both sides of the comb are all oriented so that a flat side is horizontal, not just some but all cells.
next time I open that hive up I'll take a look at some more frames.   I wonder if I wired the comb in wrong and they just followed the pattern?

has anyone here ever installed a package onto supercell?  I feel kinda weird giving my bees manmade comb but maybe the bees will love it after they get used to it.

thanks everyone.

[Joseph Clemens]

Sometimes even natural comb is built with varying orientations. Using foundation or foundation starter strips is what causes more combs with /\ orientation, otherwise it can vary much.

I tried getting a nuc started on all HSC frames cut down to medium (size of my nucs). I shook the bees into the nuc and onto the HSC, I made sure the queen was with them. The queen didn't want to lay in them, and after almost two weeks I found that they had absconded. I should have used a queen includer. If I ever try that again (and I probably will), I will try not to overlook the includer.

[Jerrymac]

I do believe the horizontal flat part is suppose to be there, not running straight up and down (vertically)

[Jerrymac]

Here is one from Michael Bush page. Bees drew this out.

[jimmy_in_texas]

I suppose the bees can make it any way they want, evidently it doesnt matter in the function of the cell or has another purpose.

The lady I spoke to when I ordered  the HSC told me to rub some of my natural comb all over them to scent them up, and I do have excluders I will use until the queen starts laying,  I am a little concerned about forcing the bees onto a cell pattern they have no control over.  I'd sure like to hear if anyone has noticed any behaviour difference in established HSC hives.

I'm also wondering if the HSC has any effect at all on SHB? I havent ever had any damage I can see but theres always just a few of those nasty beetles crawling around when I open my hive. in the past year, all the ones I've seen are about the size of a ladybug.

if it can slow em down great, same for the wax moths.

[Jerrymac]

OK that was weird. Must have been having a medicated moment. I need to get the Doc to change my meds.

You are right. Most all the comb I have seen the flat is vertical. Strange how I thought it was horizontal and then the first pic I see on M. Bush's page is just what I was thinking.

Here is one from the wild. Where it broke off is the top

[PDCambs]

I believe an orientation where the flat sides are horizontal is supposed to be less amenable to varroa as there is less of an air gap above the larva; nurse bees are more able to get at mites in the cell then as the mites find it harder to hide toward the bottom of the cell. However this is only a recollection of something I once read and know of no studies confirming or otherwise.

I've never seen any comb orientated so, but if I did I would be very interested to see if the trait was genetic adaptation or a learnt behavior, and what if any effect it would on mite loads.



Best regards

Peter
Cambridge UK

[Michael Bush]

>I believe an orientation where the flat sides are horizontal is supposed to be less amenable to varroa as there is less of an air gap above the larva;

That was a theory of Ian Rumsey's.  It may well be true and might contribute to people with natural comb having success with Varroa.

http://www.beesource.com/bee-l/biobeefiles/ian/comb.htm
http://www.beesource.com/bee-l/biobeefiles/ian/index.htm

[jimmy_in_texas]

If the HSC isnt a star performer for me, I'll quickly go back to natural comb, To tell the truth, the only check I've done for mites is visual, I see the bees most days and many times sit to the side and just observe the activity. granted, the hive is only a year old.

Not once have I ever seen a mite on the bees, sometimes I take a large magnifing glass, flashlight and look at them in detail at night on the landing board. never have seen one on a bee.
I have to prop the flashlight up though because a few will fly around the light, if your holding it they will get on you.
and then sometimes theres the half alive ones on the ground that love to crawl up your leg and perform a last act,  when you feel them grab your hair you know its coming.

[Michael Bush]

>Not once have I ever seen a mite on the bees, sometimes I take a large magnifing glass, flashlight and look at them in detail at night on the landing board. never have seen one on a bee.

That could mean you haven't learned to see them.  It took me a while to see them.  Try taking a picture and studying the picture.

http://www.bushfarms.com/images/Varroa2.jpg
http://www.bushfarms.com/images/Varroa3.jpg

[Jerrymac]

http://www.bushfarms.com/images/Varroa3.jpg

The bee in the lower left has a mite. And another in the upper right. And possibly top middle?

[jimmy_in_texas]

I can definately see them in your pictures, and some that arent circled.
are they always that light red-brown color?

I will look closer to see if I can spot any, I wonder if the bees had a mind to, would they be physically able to remove mites from each other?

[Joseph Clemens]

>Not once have I ever seen a mite on the bees, sometimes I take a large magnifing glass, flashlight and look at them in detail at night on the landing board. never have seen one on a bee.

That could mean you haven't learned to see them.  It took me a while to see them.  Try taking a picture and studying the picture.

http://www.bushfarms.com/images/Varroa2.jpg
http://www.bushfarms.com/images/Varroa3.jpg

Michael Bush,
Quite so. Taking high resolution digital photos and then examining them in detail has worked the best for me. Though, sometimes opening drone brood will find them there. Though recently I've not been able to find any in drone brood, but once in awhile I spot one in a photo on a worker.

[Brian D. Bray]

I can definately see them in your pictures, and some that arent circled.
are they always that light red-brown color?

I will look closer to see if I can spot any, I wonder if the bees had a mind to, would they be physically able to remove mites from each other?

Bees often remove mites from each other during grooming.  A portion of any mite fall is due to grooming.  Another way to get the bees to remove mites from each other is the Dowd method aka sugar shakes.  With sugar shakes the bees groom each other dislodging mites and the powdered sugar also acts like a lubricant that prevents the mite from hanging onto the bee.  Sugar shakes won't get rid of all the mites on all the bees nor will it affect the mites within brood cells, which is why several applications are recommended.

[Michael Bush]

>I can definately see them in your pictures, and some that arent circled.
are they always that light red-brown color?

There are many parts of the bee that are the same color.  I don't believe there are any in the pictures that aren't circled.