Newbie first inspection questions

[sarafina]

I hived  my package bees last Sat and today opened up the hive to take a look.  The queen was released from here cage so I took that out.  I pulled each frame and looked at it and didn't see the queen nor did I see any eggs, but until I see some eggs I am not sure I know what to look for, other than the magnified pictures in books.  The frames with comb were covered in bees so I didn't get a chance to look at the cells real closely.

I scraped off the burr comb they had built in the gap where the cage hung and made sure the queen wasn't on them - just a few worker bees.  The burr comb had nectar and some pollen.

I will look again next weekend since I should have larvae by then and hopefully these will be easier to spot.  If for some reason the queen didn't survive, what would the hive be doing if it was queenless?  Same thing it is doing now?  Sucking down lots of syrup and building comb and bringing in pollen?

Any advice for me second inspection?

[JP]

Yeah, the hive will be doing the same thing, they go into starvation mode and try and pack on the honey. If you don't see any eggs next inspection I would contact your supplier, informing them you got a dud.


...JP

[buzzbee]

Eggs can be very difficult to see but a few days after the queen is released you should be able to see the larvae.By nine days,you should see capped brood.

[Michael Bush]

The queens in packages are often banked for a while and it sometimes takes a while for her to start to lay.  If you can't find eggs in a week after she's been released (and you know what eggs look like) I'd tell the supplier.

[sarafina]

Thanks for the replies - another noob question.

Here are a couple of pics of my frames when I checked them Sat.  The second one shows the burr comb from the gap from the queen cage (which I removed).  Only the middle frames were drawn out as expected.






Ok - my question.  Next weekend when we open the hive I really need to find some eggs and larvae.  The frames that had the comb drawn out were covered in bees.  Do I use a brush and brush them off so I can see whats in the cells?  Or will it be obvious with the bees on them.  I should have capped larvae by then, too shouldn't I since it will be 14 days since I hived my package? 

[Michael Bush]

>Do I use a brush and brush them off so I can see whats in the cells? 

I never have.

>Or will it be obvious with the bees on them.

Mabye.  Maybe not.  If the bees are in your way and you're wearing a veil, you can blow softly on them and they will move out of the way.  If the bees are kind of hot, this might make them mad, but if they are calm bees they should move aside.

>  I should have capped larvae by then, too shouldn't I since it will be 14 days since I hived my package?

The queen was confined, so she was not laying until she was released. Then, since they had her banked before that, it will take some time to fatten her up to lay.  She may not start laying until a week after she was released.  Those won't be capped until nine days after that, so that could be as much as 13 days after the queen was released.

http://www.bushfarms.com/beesmath.htm

[dlmarti]

The queen is not going to start laying until the cells are mostly drawn out.

From the pictures its not drawn out yet.

Bee eggs are hard for a beginner to see, they look like a miniature rice grain.  The egg will be standing on its end, in the center of the bottom of the cell.

You should be feeding syrup now, at least until you see some stores.

Wait a few days, then try to get a half dozen more pictures, and post them up here.  Honestly though, chances are everything is ok, don't be worried.

[Brian D. Bray]

The queen is not going to start laying until the cells are mostly drawn out.

From the pictures its not drawn out yet.

Not correct, swarm queens (package queens fit it this catagory) will start laying on comb as it is drawn--I've had queens lay on foundationless frames with not much more of the cell made than you'd find on foundation.  The workers will complete drawing the cells and cap it immediately.

Bee eggs are hard for a beginner to see, they look like a miniature rice grain.  The egg will be standing on its end, in the center of the bottom of the cell.

Hold the frame with the sun over your shoulder and at eye level or slightly above.  The eggs will look like tiny grains of rice standing on end.  Once you see one the rest will come into focus immediately.

You should be feeding syrup now, at least until you see some stores.

Wait a few days, then try to get a half dozen more pictures, and post them up here.  Honestly though, chances are everything is ok, don't be worried.

You should be feeding your packages, any established hives shouldn't need it now as the fruit trees are blooming in most areas.  Fruit trees usually provide a large enough flow that the bees stop taking syrup or take very little.

[sarafina]

Thanks, Brian - I have been feeding syrup since I brought my package home and hived them.  What few fruit trees we have here were finished blooming by the time I got my bees on Apr 5th - they bloom in late Feb/Mar because the weather is so mild here.  Lots of other flowers, though!  I am only feeding syrup and not pollen patties since we have plenty of flowers all around.

I wish I could have afforded 2 hives this year but I couldn't.  I will have 2 (or more) by next year  :-D

I'll take a peek at the girls this weekend and hopefully find some eggs and larvae this time.  They were real active this afternoon, bringing in lots of pollen.

[dlmarti]

The queen is not going to start laying until the cells are mostly drawn out.

From the pictures its not drawn out yet.

Not correct, swarm queens (package queens fit it this catagory) will start laying on comb as it is drawn--I've had queens lay on foundationless frames with not much more of the cell made than you'd find on foundation.  The workers will complete drawing the cells and cap it immediately.

Isn't that what I said?
The cell needs to be mostly drawn out before they lay, I didn't say it needed to be fully drawn out.

[Brian D. Bray]

The queen is not going to start laying until the cells are mostly drawn out.

From the pictures its not drawn out yet.

Not correct, swarm queens (package queens fit it this catagory) will start laying on comb as it is drawn--I've had queens lay on foundationless frames with not much more of the cell made than you'd find on foundation.  The workers will complete drawing the cells and cap it immediately.

Isn't that what I said?
The cell needs to be mostly drawn out before they lay, I didn't say it needed to be fully drawn out.

I understand what you said and I was responding that my experience has been that queens will start laying almost as soon as the workers start building comb.  That is, less than 1/4 drawn depth wise.  I've seen it many times that the queen lays cells in partially drawn comb and the workers finish drawing it out and cap it immediately as the brood has developed as the conb is drawn.  I was not trying to start an arguement just point out a fact for those less experienced.  Granted this type of queen laying behavior is usually only found in swarms or packages, which are essentially the same thing.

[CBEE]

Good tid bit of info Brian. I was under the impression the comb had to be fully or almost fully drawn out befor the queen would lay.
Learn something here every day  :-D

[sarafina]

Thanks, guys for your encouragement.  I don't have pictures this time, but everything is going well!  I upset the girls by changing out my bottom board for a screened one so I only pulled a couple of frames in the middle to take a peak and I found capped honey in the corners, an arch of pollen below that and lots of caped brood in the middle!

I still didn't see any eggs, but I saw the tiny larvae curled up in the bottom of some of the cells, so I am happy as a clam - it was so exciting to see them!  The capped brood was solid with no gaps, so my queen seems to be doing well so far.

Now I am going to leave them alone for 2 weeks and let them do their thang.  Maybe by then they will be ready for the second deep I have on hand for them.

[JP]

Hooray! Fantastic!!! Glad things are going well.


...JP