Queen Cells & Drone Cells & Brood Patterns... Oh my!

[Sean Kelly]

Yesterday I did a quick check on my 2 hives that overwintered and hive number 1 was perfect with a nice tight brood pattern and new stores of uncapped honey.  Hive number 2 however was almost dry and the brood pattern was very sparce.  What really bothered me was how calm the bees were compared to hive number 1 and the huge number of capped drone cells and even more nerving, lots of capped queen cells (counted 4 on just one frame)!

Is hive number 2 gunna swarm or did the old queen die?  I've seen a queenless hive before and it was pretty hot.  These bees were super calm.

I'm leaving for Oregon today to watch my best friend get married and will be gone for 4 days.  I will not have much time to work with my bees today before I leave and am not sure what to do!  I'm afraid that when I come home my bees will have swarmed.  Should I do an emergency split?  Should I cut the queen cells out?  Should I just let them do their thing and not worry about it and quit crying like a baby?

On another note, I took a quick peek at my 2 new hives that I installed last Saturday (I know I should just leave them alone but I couldn't help myself).  I was shocked to see that they both have already drawn out 6 to 7 frames completely and loaded with eggs!!!  That blew my freakin mind!  Last year by this time, my first hive barely had 1 frame drawn out.  The only thing I did different this year was not use plastic foundation and have been adding "Honey-B-Healthy" to their syrup.  Must be doing the trick!

Sean Kelly

[Michael Bush]

Determining if hive is going to swarm is an accumulation of information.

First, are there swarm cells?  If not, they aren't going in the next few days yet.  Second, are there a LOT of bees.  If not, it's doubtful they are going to swarm.

The most likely scenario is a hive with LOTS of bees, some swarm cells and little brood.  They either are about to swarm or they already did.

[Sean Kelly]

Michael, yes lots of bees, little brood, and queen cells hanging from the bottom of the frames (which I assume are swarm cells).

Not much I can do now.  I'm down in Beaverton, Oregon for the next 4 days.  If they swarm, I hope they leave some bees behind for me.  That was one good queen too.   :'(  It's a shame I didn't have time to split them or somethin.

Sean Kelly

[JP]

sean, do you have any time to run down and set up some swarm traps? Or a friend, or neighbor? Was thinking you may be able to catch some once they swarm out, just a thought.


...JP

[Sean Kelly]

sean, do you have any time to run down and set up some swarm traps? Or a friend, or neighbor? Was thinking you may be able to catch some once they swarm out, just a thought.
...JP

Hey JP!

Nope, it's too far away and if I did I'd end up spending $100 extra in gas round trip.  I'm out of swarm lure and so is the bee supply place near us.  I have a ready-to-go hive all set up and empty in my apiary though.  I've sent a PM and email to Poka-bee (Jody) here on the forum who lives just down the road from me.  The email was sent back to me for some reason (over quota or something), so I really hope she gets my PM.  I didn't bring her phone number down with me either, left it back at home in my notebook!  AHHHH.  I'm hoping she will be available if my neighbors call my cell and say there's a swarm in their yard (I let them know there might be a possiblility this weekend).

Ugh, I hate worrying stuff at home when on vacation.   :-\

Sean Kelly

[poka-bee]

Hey Sean
I havn't gotten the PM yet but I will be available sometimes this weekend.  I'll pM you with my phone & cell #.  Do you have extra boxes & frames where I can get to em?  I have some I can throw in the car & a top & unfinished bottom board(thats another post :? ) OOhh, I can't believe the rush of excitement I just got thinking of seeing & catching a swarm of beeees.  Will they still swarm whilst it's so cold out????  Have fun at the wedding...hope it isn't outside! :roll:
Blessings  Jody

[Sean Kelly]

Jody,

Got your PM.  Yes I have extra equipment ready to go, a whole empty hive with wax foundation sitting inbetween my two new hives.  The one that's about the swarm is the one on the far left when you go in the gate.  My parent's said they've been keeping an eye out down there and haven't seen anything yet.  I also heard that it was freakin snowing today?!?!?!  Wasn't it like 80 degrees last week?  I've got your number programmed into my cell phone with a quick dial incase I need you to swing on over.  Thanks for helping me with this on such short notice.  I'll let you know if anything needs to be done if they haven't swarmed already.

Michael, JP, and anyone else,

What happens if those queens emerge from the new swarm cells while the weather is still in the 30's and snowing/raining?  Will they still swarm?  Will the new queens battle it out with the old one?  I don't think the bees were expecting cold weather when they started making swarm cells in last week's 80 degree weather.
Is there anything last minute I can have Jody do in my absence to prevent them from swarming?  Will adding another deep on top stop this process or am I too late?

My wife just informed me that we will be coming home earlier than I originally thought on Sunday night and I have all day Monday to work on this problem.

Thoughts, Ideas, Concerns?

Thanks again guys!!!

Sean Kelly

[JP]

They will not swarm out in cold weather, so you have bought some time. If you have several ripe queens that are about to emerge you will have to get in there and make some splits or they will swarm out no matter how much room you give them, its a reproductive thing at this point.



...JP

[Cindi]

Sean, you are back later on today.  HOpe you had a nice little getaway.  You will be getting many responses here.  I think that if I were you, I would do what MB calls the "cut down" split.  I did that last year when I found swarm cells and it worked well.

With the cut down split you take the old queen, some frames of brood and adhering bees and a couple of shakes of bees and make a new colony.  The original colony that had swarm intentions will think that they have swarmed because the queen is no longer there and the new emerging queens will battle it out, and the new queen will become mated when the weather is good.

I know what you mean about the freaky weather.  I know the day that you are talking about that hit around 80, we had that day too, only ours only hit to 75 or so, but yes, hot summer day like and then back to the blinking cold.  Today looks like there may be strong sunshine, you will probably be having similar weather.  Don't know.

Anyways, you have stuff to do tomorrow, hopefully the weather will be good.  Check out Michael's site, he has some excellent thoughts on splitting, doing a cut down split, etc., if you have time, good luck, things will be well.  Have the best of this great day, Cindi

[Michael Bush]

It seems doubtful that they would be swarming when you are still getting snow.

[Brian D. Bray]

Yeah, relax.  Snow Friday night down your way, ditto for Saturday, and I woke up to more snow this morning.  The bees aren't going anyplace until Monday or Tuesday and by then you should have the problem rectified.

[Sean Kelly]

Awesome!  You guys are the best!!!  We're coming home tonight and I have all day Monday to fix the issue.  Looks like I'm gunna have a few more hives by the end of Monday.  I only have 2 bottom boards left and 1 extra inner+telescoping covers.  I might have to use a piece of plywood as a cover for a while until I can get one ordered.  Plenty of extra hive bodys/frames/foundation though.

Just out of curiousity, what if those queens do emerge and it's too cold to fly?  What happens?  Do all those queens live in harmony or do they duke it out?

Sean Kelly

[JP]

I have been told that at some point, there will be a massacre. The hive I removed on April 10 had 9 queens that I caught. I ran out of things to put them in. I put four together in a small tupperware container and one of the four killed the other ones.


...JP

[Michael Bush]

http://www.bushfarms.com/huber.htm#letter6

[Cindi]

Michael, this is the most interesting link, the letters of the man and his observations.  I particularly liked what he was saying here:

"There ought to be none but one queen in a hive: therefore it is necessary, if by chance a second is either produced or comes into the hive, that one of the two must be destroyed. This cannot be committed to the working bees, because, in a republic composed of so many individuals, an equal consent cannot be supposed always to exist; it might frequently happen that one group of bees destroyed one of the queens, while a second would massacre the other; and the hive thus be deprived of queens. Therefore it was necessary that the queens themselves should be entrusted with the destruction of their rivals: but as, in these combats, nature demands but a single victim, she has wisely arranged that, at the moment when, from their position, the two combatants might lose their lives, both feel so great an alarm, that they think only of flight, and not of using their stings."

Have the most wonderful and awesome day, Cindi

[Sean Kelly]

Got home last night and checked on my bugs this morning.  Looks like they haven't swarmed yet(had snow and 60 degree weather... figure that one out).  The hive was BUSTING at the seams with bees.  Popped open the telescoping cover and the outside of the innercover was covered with bees.  I think they're trying to swarm but the weather has been bad today.  Started to do a split and it instantly started dropping massive ice pellets.  Threw the top deep super on the new bottom board and threw lids on the hives.  Hoping the sun will come back out so I can even up the brood and queencells (a few are empty now) and face the hives towards each other.  Gunna throw a medium with drawn comb on top of both also to give them a little more room.  Uh oh.... sun's out again, gota run!!!

Sean Kelly

[Sean Kelly]

Okay, this is weird...  swarm cells are gone.  Did the split anyway.  Doesnt seem like they swarmed.  Think they just changed thier minds?

Sean Kelly

[Cindi]

Sean, yep, I bet they did.  They will tear down queen cells if they are not used.  Bees build queen cups all the time for practice and then tear them down, maybe they weren't fully capped queen cells.  Perhaps, you will hear others chime in.  Beautiful and wonderful day, Cindi