Question for the experts on drone cells

Understudy · April 21, 2008, 09:00:57 AM

In doing cutouts I have noticed a couple of things regarding drone cells.

If a hive is not in swarm mode. The drone cells are on the outside pieces of comb in small clusters. Or on the outer edges of the comb in the brood comb.

However when a hive is in swarm mode the drone comb takes up large pockets in the brood comb and bees are backfilling the brood comb with honey.

Know that the queen doesn't tend to cross honey frames to lay brood. I use to think the queen would cross to lay drone cells. I am looking into revising that possibly.

I am wondering if those small clusters of drone cells on the outside pieces of comb where done by laying workers.

The reason I am thinking this is a hive usually may have a few laying workers that are dealt with by the hive when their is a queen. However on the outside pieces of comb this would be a good place for a laying worker to lay a few eggs before being caught and dealt with. Also if the queen is laying mainly worker cells in a pattern on the brood comb why would she break to go to the outer edges of the hive to lay drone cells and then return to laying brood in the center of the hive.

The only reason I can guess at the above is that the brood area is full but I am not sure on that.

So these are some random thoughts I am having nothing with any certainty. Just possibilities.

In a nutshell, Is it possible that the drone cells on the outer edges of comb in small clusters are made by a laying worker in a hive with a queen? Especially if the hive is large.

Sincerely,
Brendhan

Cindi · April 21, 2008, 10:12:32 AM

Brendhan, you are a thinking man, you wonder such stuff and that is great, I would love to hear the answers coming forthwith too. I am thinking though that the queen will walk everywhere and search everywhere for empty cells, I don't think that the drone cells on the outside of the frames were made by laying workers, but then, I have not had the experience that some of our friends have had, so you will hear comments, wait and see. Beautiful day in this great life. Cindi

KONASDAD · April 21, 2008, 11:07:42 AM

Perhaps the random, disorganized nature of the comb in a feral hive makes the distance a queen has to travel over honey comb less of an issue than in a langstroth.

Brian D. Bray · April 24, 2008, 12:27:45 AM

It is documented that laying workers do exist in queen right hives--I believe Michael Bush has that on his website.
What Brendhan says makes sense and laying workers is usually the reason drone cells are often found above queen excluders so islotated pockets of drone cells on the edges of the normal brood chamber makes just as much sense. If the beekeeper isn't aware that laying workers can exist in queen right hives the queen often gets the blame and unnecessarily terminated and replaced as a result.
The back filling of brood comb prior to winter top off is one indicator a hive has gone into swarm mode--when you find that happening in spring or summer do a walk away split ASAP if you want to keep your bees, especially the queen in that particular hive.

Michael Bush · April 26, 2008, 10:18:59 AM

The laying worker issue seems to still be a bit fuzzy as far as research on how many of the drones in a hive are from that source, but every hive has them.

As far as a queen crossing honey, I don't believe it for a moment. If you put a box of drawn comb in a super above a couple of capped supers n a hive that has virtually no drone comb in the brood nest, the queen will be up there laying in those in no time flat.

Understudy · April 26, 2008, 11:42:39 AM

Quote from: Michael Bush on April 26, 2008, 10:18:59 AM
The laying worker issue seems to still be a bit fuzzy as far as research on how many of the drones in a hive are from that source, but every hive has them.

As far as a queen crossing honey, I don't believe it for a moment. If you put a box of drawn comb in a super above a couple of capped supers n a hive that has virtually no drone comb in the brood nest, the queen will be up there laying in those in no time flat.

An excellent point.

Sincerely,
Brendhan

qa33010 · May 01, 2008, 12:56:34 AM

What Michael said.

That's what happened to one of my hives. She is very prolific and in her second year. I had a deep of drawn empty comb on top of a deep full of honey. I messed up on my notes and pulled the box from the wrong hive. Anyway one hive swarmed and the other has all kinds of brood on the fourth floor, away from the first and second floor nurseries.