Starting (completely) from scratch ?!

[Devin]

Greetings to beekeeperland --

I have this crazy idea. I want to find a successful hive of honeybees that is already in my area and start my own hive(s) from this hive. Indulge me, this sounds like a fun topic, and a cursory search of the forums reveals it to be an uncommon one, if not nonexistent.

I'm starting with the premise that this is possible, because when humans started beekeeping there were no stores for them to purchase bees at. That is, unless I'm wrong and bees really have been accessible in stores since time immemorial. Unlikely.

So is this possible? Of course it is! (That's one of the premises, remember?) Is it practical? Probably not. But I'm approaching this as an experiment, a game if you will, where the purchase of bees and beekeeping equipment is an admission of defeat.

Bear with me, but here's how I'm seeing it. Almost like a game of capture the flag, except the defenders will sting you:

1. Find a beehive. I assume this would involve tracking bees back to their base, armed with knowledge(s) of likely places for beehives.
2. Infiltrate hive defenses.
... This is where the steps get hazy, like in a choose-your-own-adventure book, except if I screw up I don't get to go back to the previous page and take the other option. Actually not like that at all because I really just don't know how to go about doing this. At all.
3. Capture queen? Obtain comb?
4. Run?
5. Deposit queen in my already built hive...
0. Build my own hive.
6. Do beekeeping... activities and help bees live through winter.
7. ?? ?? ??
8. Profit!


But there is a catch. I have no idea what I am doing. I have never beekept before. (Is beekept the verb? ... It should be.) I figure I can handle most everything after I find the bees and start a hive of my own, but the beginning steps elude me.

So, luckily, I am also starting with the premise that the people on this forum are the most knowledgeable beekeepers on the face of the entire... internet and would be glad to help out a complete novice such as I.

Questions for the collective wisdom of this board:
1. How to find a hive? Right now the only idea I have is something that could be from Mission Impossible -- shooting a bee with a tranquilizing dart, attaching a GPS receiver to said tranquilized bee and following it back to a hive. I'm not completely serious... of course bees have pollen harvesting patterns and traveling distances and likely places to put their hives, I just don't know what these are.

2. What would I do once I've found a hive to transfer that hive to one of my own?
2a. Do I even need to, or can I just, say, build a top bar hive around the pre-existing hive?
2b. How to sedate the bees? I recall a story of how "Native Americans" would smoke bees out of a hive to harvest the honey, but I also recall stories of how native children would make the little runty one go get the honey to prove their bravery. :'(
2c. I'm currently assuming the prize is the queen bee and/or a nucleus? What would I do here? Halp!

3. Has anyone ever done anything like this? Thought about doing something like this? Potentially, hopefully, already DONE something like this and has wisdom they wish to pass along?
3a. After that, can someone let me know if I can trust Amazon reviewers on beginning beekeeping books? If not, what is the ONE book you would recommend for beginners, as an introductory book to find out more before I purchase more books?


I know this is a lot of questions, but any help is greatly appreciated. Beekeeping sounds like a fun and rewarding experience, though difficult at times, and I'd really like to learn as much as I can. If no one knows anything at all, something I'd find highly unlikely (and frankly, quite suspect), I will simply do the research myself and get back to you on all of this. :)

Time is not an issue. I have time. If time came in buckets I would have buckets of time. [Time does come in oodles, I already have lots of those.]


Looking forward to hearing responses/advice, even if you're grouchy and tell me to "just go buy one." (NO! ;))

[Kathyp]

just go buy one.

just kidding.

if there is a beekeeping association in your area, you might start by joining them, or attending meetings.  since you want a challenge in your bee acquisition, you might want to mitigate the challenge of keeping them once you find them, by gaining knowledge first.

also, in case you do find a hive somewhere, you would want to have read the swarm removal section of the forum.  you will gain an appreciation for hive removal, relocation, and care, from that section.

[MBrowne]

Best thing to start with is to read up on beekeeping. "First Lessons in Beekeeping" is a simple book to start with but there are a lot of begginner books.

The next thing to read up on is BeeLining (Finding a hive). You should be able to search this forum for it.

[JP]

First off, put the pot of coffee down for just a minute, ok? :-D So many words, so much rambling, so much excitement, hey, that's a good thing!

Yep, check out swarm removal as Kathy has mentioned. Put some swarm traps out or put your name on a list after you have studied up a good bit.

Perhaps someone from your area would donate or sell you a swarm captured from your area, wherever that is, hopelessly lost, is that near the middle of nowhere?

Welcome to beemaster and the world of beekeeping.


...JP

[Cindi]

Devin, welcome to our forum, yes, you have found a great place to ask your questions about beekeeping, and yep, I would say that "beekept" is a good word.  Update your profile so that we know where you are located, that helps when people try to answer your questions.  You have given some great questions to be answered, and you have already received some good ones.  You are a thinker.

I quote what you said

So, luckily, I am also starting with the premise that the people on this forum are the most knowledgeable beekeepers on the face of the entire... internet and would be glad to help out a complete novice such as I.

No one can claim to be the most knowledgeable beekeeper, there are always mysteries to solve and more to learn about bees, we have many knowledgeable keepers of the bees, but do not know it all.  I know that you didn't really mean that statement.  So much to learn about the bees, no one will ever know it all.

You will get good responses to your questions, I don't doubt that, all I wanted to do was welcome you to our forum.  Why don't you tell us a little bit about yourself in the greetings forum?  We are an interested bunch of people and love to hear what people are up to.  Have the most beautiful and wonderful day, Cindi

[jimmyo]

  bee lining, swarm catching and doing a cut out or rescuing a colony from a bee tree or somewhere they don't belong takes some experience in beekeeping first.  I think you are starting off a little backwards.
  Find a beekeeper and spend some time in a hive first.  Hands on experience with bees in a controlled environment is safer and easier to learn but not as exciting.
  I like capturing your own bees.  Starting out with a wild colony that might be several years old would mean you have a srong colony with a good genetic  background.  And free bees are the best!!!
have fun,
  Jim       

[doak]

Can't add much to what has already been said.
This thing you will house your bees in. Bee hive/hollow log.
In some States it is against the law to use hollow logs.
Get you a standard size box complete with all attachments, ie, top cover, bottom board, frames and foundation, inner cover, The other stuff can come later.
If You don't want to buy bees from a local beekeeper you can set up what is called a swarm trap. With lure.
Find a place where you know bees are working blossoms.
And do it now, this is the best time of the year to catch swarms.

Before you start, Like has been said, read some or at least one good book for beginners.
try to find a beekeeper that is willing to work with you.

Do not pick some one who has several hundred colonies and works alone. He doesn't have time to help his/herself let alone some one new to bees.
( sorry big fellows). Facts of life.
Like every one has said. Start at the beginning
, reading.
Also in the beginning find out if you can keep bees in the county, and State of  hopelessly lost.
doak

[CBEE]

Yea, I would say wanting to do a cut out of some kind knowing absolutely diddly about bees or what you are doing is a little on the crazy side. Find a club in your area and get someone to give you a little hands on experience. You may want to put out a few swarm traps and try to catch a swarm. A swarm in a trap would be little easier for a 1st timer to deal with. While you are waiting to try and catch a swarm go ahead and fork out the 70 bucks or so for a package. Some places ferral bees are far and few between and it could be a long time trying to get them this way.  2 weeks,  2 months, 2 years ????

[doak]

Also not to mention, I left out the worst of it.
Depending on where hopelessly lost is located, you could end up with an Africanized .WHAT!!!!!!!!!?????????
doak

[sarafina]

Devin,

You have some very romantic notions about keeping bees, but unless you invest in some protective equipment like a veil and gloves and a suit you are likely to end up in the hospital if you try and cut out an established, feral colony.

Capturing a swarm is your best bet since they do not have a hive to defend.

If you plan to build your own hive then you might want to consider "bee space" (you will run across this term in any beekeeping book); otherwise you will end up with a mess of comb going every which way.


Good luck!

[doak]

And there is more yet to come. :)doak

[Michael Bush]

>So is this possible?

Of course it is!

>Is it practical?

Sort of.  It's practical to catch swarms and set bait hives and do cut outs, but unless you have a lot of contacts to find cut outs, it's like fishing.  If you really want fish, you should go to the grocery store.

I would hedge your bets and buy a package and learn about bees.  Meantime set some bait hives and learn to beeline.  Search on here for "removal" and "cutouts" and read as much as you can about them.

Here some info on beelining:
http://www.beesource.com/pov/wenner/bsjun1992.htm

Here's some info on bait hives swarms etc.:
http://www.bushfarms.com/beesferal.htm

>1. Find a beehive. I assume this would involve tracking bees back to their base, armed with knowledge(s) of likely places for beehives.

Beelining.  But how likely will you find it on someone's property who will let you cut down the bee tree?

>2. Infiltrate hive defenses.
... This is where the steps get hazy, like in a choose-your-own-adventure book, except if I screw up I don't get to go back to the previous page and take the other option.

Nothing to infiltrate really. You just need adequate protection and a smoker, probably.  But usually they are deep inside a tree.  A very large tree.  And to get to them you usually have to cut down the tree.

>3. Capture queen? Obtain comb?

It's actually NICE to capture the queen, but not necessary.  If you get some open brood and eggs they will rear a new one.  But again, getting to the comb is the issue.

>4. Run?

Not usually.

>5. Deposit queen in my already built hive...

And who will take care of the queen?

>0. Build my own hive.

Certainly doable.  But it's probably cheaper to buy one.

>6. Do beekeeping... activities and help bees live through winter.

They will need a pretty strong hive to get through the winter.  So you would need to do a cutout sometime in the next few months.

>8. Profit!

How?

>But there is a catch. I have no idea what I am doing.

Obviously. :)

> I have never beekept before. (Is beekept the verb? ... It should be.) I figure I can handle most everything after I find the bees and start a hive of my own, but the beginning steps elude me.

That's because you don't know anything about bees yet.  The best way to learn that (after you read everything you can find) is to get some bees.

>1. How to find a hive?

Beelining.

>2. What would I do once I've found a hive to transfer that hive to one of my own?

A cutout.


>2a. Do I even need to, or can I just, say, build a top bar hive around the pre-existing hive?

You will need to build frames for your top bar hive in order to do a cutout.

>2b. How to sedate the bees? I recall a story of how "Native Americans" would smoke bees out of a hive to harvest the honey, but I also recall stories of how native children would make the little runty one go get the honey to prove their bravery. Cry

Smoke will calm them SOMEWHAT.  If you are doing a cut out, it may not make that much difference.

>2c. I'm currently assuming the prize is the queen bee and/or a nucleus? What would I do here? Halp!

The prize is actually enough bees and enough brood comb to start a hive. The queen is just a bonus.

>3. Has anyone ever done anything like this?

Many times.

>Potentially, hopefully, already DONE something like this and has wisdom they wish to pass along?

http://www.bushfarms.com/beesferal.htm

>3a. After that, can someone let me know if I can trust Amazon reviewers on beginning beekeeping books? If not, what is the ONE book you would recommend for beginners, as an introductory book to find out more before I purchase more books?

http://www.bushfarms.com/beesbasics.htm
http://www.bushfarms.com/beesnewbees.htm
http://www.bushfarms.com/bees.htm

[Devin]

Thanks everyone. Obviously this is a long-term project, I may have "romantic notions" but I'm not stupid or impatient. Ending up in the hospital is not on my agenda. I know when I know what I'm doing and I know when I don't, and openly admitted I'm clueless. ;) I will read the material you've suggested -- thanks for the links and pointers, in particular to Michael Bush. Very enlightening reads. It's very encouraging to know this is possible and that people have actually done it. (Of course they have! ;))

I'm very into closed-loop systems. The less I have to be reliant on the economic system the better, which of course requires even more knowledge and experience than normal. Beekeeping is hardly the first in a series of steps towards closing the loop, but as I'm sure you all will acknowledge bees (and other insects) play an essential role in pollination and bees in particular the arguably less essential role of providing sweets for all kinds of honey lovers. I look forward to the evenings I spend reading about bees, when I get around to it again. Gotta build my house first!

I'll poke in from time to time, I'm sure. Til next time.
- Devin

[blckoakbees]

Devin,

I hope you will find a beekeeper to work with because it is just fasinating to actually open up a hive and seen what the bees are doing.  I think once you have done this you will be hooked. Eventually, it may be profitable and it is really fun to.

[Devin]

I do have one minor clarification to add: as far as profit goes I was being silly and referring to an internet meme where the last two steps are always "??" and "Profit!" respectively. I'm not in this to make money, quite the contrary. I'd rather pay and earn nothing at all. I'm not even necessarily out to "make honey", so much as "make healthy ecosystems." Inasmuch as one can "make" an ecosystem "healthy", of course.

[sarafina]

Gotta build my house first!

What kind of house?  Standard construction or alternative building techniques?  Solar, geothermal or just conventional?